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| |  Posted Thursday, August 07, 2008 11:12 PM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Sunday, October 12, 2008 12:09 AM
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| | I've seen a bunch of people blame this on the salary cap. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the salary cap isn't a problem. It goes up exponentially every year and the recent years it's been zooming up even faster, which is why the owners opted out of their contract. Apparently there won't even be a cap in a couple years. I think it's more likely that the Jaguars are feeling the squeeze of being a lower revenue team. Last I heard they were somewhere around 110 million in debt, and looking for minority investors. Shelling out a 20 million guarantee to a rookie isn't something they can afford to do. |
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| | | Posted Friday, August 08, 2008 1:38 AM | |
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Last Login: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:20 AM
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| I'm James Lipton (8/7/2008)
I've seen a bunch of people blame this on the salary cap. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the salary cap isn't a problem. It goes up exponentially every year and the recent years it's been zooming up even faster, which is why the owners opted out of their contract. Apparently there won't even be a cap in a couple years. I think it's more likely that the Jaguars are feeling the squeeze of being a lower revenue team. Last I heard they were somewhere around 110 million in debt, and looking for minority investors. Shelling out a 20 million guarantee to a rookie isn't something they can afford to do.
On cap/sharing.
I hear what you're saying, and I don't know right where we are with the cap, but the Jags didn't move up to the 8th round pick without the money to pay for it.
To clarify, the 110 million in debt is independent of the player's salaries. Probably due to not selling enough club seats, not jacking up the price of beers high enough, not selling enough enough regular seats, not having the naming rights sold, whatever, it does not play into what the Jags can or cannot afford to do in free agency/draft or player salary in general.
Anyways, the team is worth about 800 million.
And all that debt can be paid off with a little luck, sweat, perservance and our support.
Or by selling some minority shares.
If we can strike a fair deal (in the context of being a top 10 pick in the 2008 NFL Draft--that means big money for a rookie regardless of how you feel about it) and Harvey produces, then the Jaguars have done exactly what they set out to do and what everyone was crying for them to do: address the pass rush in a big way.
| “As men, you can be what you set your mind on. As a football team, the same rule applies. Aside from God and family, there should be nothing more important than what we’re doing here.” - JDR (7/26/08) |
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| | | Posted Friday, August 08, 2008 6:30 AM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:41 PM
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| Based on what I read in today's T/U, it appears that negotiations (or lack thereof) have finally reached a stalemate. The Jags apparently have made an offer that "fully compensates" Harvey, while admitting that it's below what "the market" would dictate. Harvey, and his agent of course, are holding out for that market number. Who will cave in, if anyone? I think the Jags hold the better hand in this deal, albeit very slightly. Harvey's value as a player, if he holds out the entire year, will almost definitely be lower next year after a year of inactivity. If he's drafted lower next year, he makes less money. Expect Harvey to eventually sign, express his gratitude at getting back to playing ball, and play as a disgruntled multi-millionaire.
| The Future Is NOW!!!!!!!! |
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| | | Posted Friday, August 08, 2008 9:06 AM | |
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Last Login: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:42 AM
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| JT Jag (8/5/2008)
This doesn't help our situation at all. Rivers' contract is remarkably similar to Mayo's, and Ellis' is remarkably similar to Gholston's. We want to give Harvey a contract similar to Rivers and Harvey wants a contract similar to Ellis'.
Who blinks first?i said this in another thread, and i will say it again. last year jamaal anderson a pass rushing defensive end was selected with the 8th overall pick. he got a contract worth i believe about 30 million dollars. harvey should be shooting for 35-7 within reason for inflation not regarding what happened at 6. then you look at 7 and 9. they average out to just around the mid thrities for the 8th pick. and when you look at the OUTRAGEOUS DEALS its the same reason that the raiders had to pay walker so muhc money and mcfadden so much money. its the bad team tax. the jags had the highest pick of any superbowl contending team. the patriots provided a great backstop for the top ten contracts because they are the patriots. the bengals still have carson palmer and they are going to be in the playoff hunt. those contracts are reasonable because they are not having to pay the bad team tax. the deal should be a compromise of 7 and 9 and it will probably average out to what we would have paid with an increase from last years 8 pick anyway. the bad news is no longer the contract in my oppinion. harvey will probably miss two preseason games at the most and then be a role player until midseason this year. if he is where he needs to be in december then it really doesn't matter because with this scheme of defense we can hold the line with the guys we have and the talent in the back. what concerns me is the performance of andrson. anderson was another one of those guys who had the skill set to get after the passer, but he is so big and strong that he plays the run well enough to line up on th strongside. the falcons play on turf and he got considerable playing time last year. the kid didn't have a single sack, i mean one. they are talking about altering scheme to get him to the QB and moving him inside on thidrd down. when you draft a kid in the top ten and you are talking about moving him to a nonpremium position at money time then you know that there is something wrong. at this level the hands of the offensive linman are much much faster, their feet are better, and their technique is close to perfect. it takes a while for even the best pass rushers to tweak their games with moves counters, speed rushes etc. to be dominant at this level. i think that the risk of having a guy like harvey come in and be expected to be a dominant pass rusher from the left side right away is more of a concern than his contract. with the madness at 6 this was almost supposed to happen.
| We will all have to make the choice between what is right, and what is easy. Give freely unto others, be brave in the face of your enemies, love those who hate you for those who hate you will only win if you hate them back, be generous with praise-it costs nothing, love all men, and fear not for he will come. There will come a day when the courage of good men will fade away and the tyranny of the weak will destroy mankind..., but today does not have to be that day! remembe this day men, for it is the curse of man that they forget... |
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| | | Posted Friday, August 08, 2008 9:08 AM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 8:45 PM
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| | My guestimation indicates Harvey should get a 17.5mil signing bonus and a 5yr-36mil contract.
| Rob Meier #92 AKA Canadian Assassin: Makin Canadian Bacon out of QBs since 2000 |
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| | | Posted Friday, August 08, 2008 10:30 AM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 11:30 AM
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| The Jags and Harvey's agent have not spoken for 7 calendar days now. I wish we would have stayed at 25 and not moved up for this guy. Even if he comes in he wont do anything this yr. What a waste of three draft picks for this guy.
| Why the name TitanJag? I am a Jag fan who has a sister married to a now former Titan player. Thank god he left in Free Agency. |
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| | | Posted Friday, August 08, 2008 10:35 AM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, October 30, 2008 6:16 PM
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| Titanjag (8/8/2008)
The Jags and Harvey's agent have not spoken for 7 calendar days now. I wish we would have stayed at 25 and not moved up for this guy. Even if he comes in he dont anything this yr. What a waste of three draft picks for this guy.
Is he going to miss all 16 games if he signs next week or something?
What were you expecting from this kid if he was in camp? 10 sacks?
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| | | Posted Friday, August 08, 2008 10:35 AM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:59 AM
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| | Harvey is going to get what the Jags offered him. Vance not making a call to the agent in 7 days indicates that. If I were Vance I would call his agent with even a lower deal than what is currently on the table. Due to lost practice time and possibility of contribution he is actually going to give because of it. Vance stick to your guns brother, they will cave and leave room for actual contributors to this team i.e. MJD, Reggie.
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| | | Posted Friday, August 08, 2008 10:47 AM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, October 06, 2008 2:45 PM
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| jj82284 (8/8/2008)
JT Jag (8/5/2008)
This doesn't help our situation at all. Rivers' contract is remarkably similar to Mayo's, and Ellis' is remarkably similar to Gholston's. We want to give Harvey a contract similar to Rivers and Harvey wants a contract similar to Ellis'.
Who blinks first?
i said this in another thread, and i will say it again. last year jamaal anderson a pass rushing defensive end was selected with the 8th overall pick.
he got a contract worth i believe about 30 million dollars.
harvey should be shooting for 35-7 within reason for inflation not regarding what happened at 6.
then you look at 7 and 9. they average out to just around the mid thrities for the 8th pick.
and when you look at the OUTRAGEOUS DEALS its the same reason that the raiders had to pay walker so muhc money and mcfadden so much money. its the bad team tax. the jags had the highest pick of any superbowl contending team. the patriots provided a great backstop for the top ten contracts because they are the patriots. the bengals still have carson palmer and they are going to be in the playoff hunt. those contracts are reasonable because they are not having to pay the bad team tax.
the deal should be a compromise of 7 and 9 and it will probably average out to what we would have paid with an increase from last years 8 pick anyway.
the bad news is no longer the contract in my oppinion. harvey will probably miss two preseason games at the most and then be a role player until midseason this year. if he is where he needs to be in december then it really doesn't matter because with this scheme of defense we can hold the line with the guys we have and the talent in the back.
what concerns me is the performance of andrson. anderson was another one of those guys who had the skill set to get after the passer, but he is so big and strong that he plays the run well enough to line up on th strongside. the falcons play on turf and he got considerable playing time last year. the kid didn't have a single sack, i mean one. they are talking about altering scheme to get him to the QB and moving him inside on thidrd down. when you draft a kid in the top ten and you are talking about moving him to a nonpremium position at money time then you know that there is something wrong.
at this level the hands of the offensive linman are much much faster, their feet are better, and their technique is close to perfect. it takes a while for even the best pass rushers to tweak their games with moves counters, speed rushes etc. to be dominant at this level. i think that the risk of having a guy like harvey come in and be expected to be a dominant pass rusher from the left side right away is more of a concern than his contract. with the madness at 6 this was almost supposed to happen.
That's exactly what I tried to point out to people. Look at Jamaal Anderson from last year. Same exact drafted position, and got nothing. What's even scarier about Jamaal Anderson is people were double-teaming Haynesworth last year so I'm sure he wasn't the focus of the offensive line.
I think the ball is in the Jaguars court. The DE position isn't looking as weak as previously thought, so I'm sure the Jaguars are much less inclined to pay Harvey what he wants. I think the Jaguars are sticking Harvey to a contract much like the Cincy deal. And it's going to be up to him to take it or leave it. Sounds like they are tens of millions of dollars away.
It sucks we lost 3 draft picks over this, I hope he signs. But, for the future of the jaguars I'd rather they sign the right deal for the teams future. And if that means he doesn't sign. So be it.
Just my thoughts.
M |
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| | | Posted Friday, August 08, 2008 10:53 AM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Friday, August 08, 2008 10:40 AM
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| | I really don't see the hype over Harvey anyway. I don't watch alot of college football and I didn't look at his combine numbers (he had to have been good to be pick at the number 8 spot) and I am sure there are Gator fans on here that will dispute me when I say when I did watch the few tapes of him at the combine and watched his interviews and the he walked and talked he looks clumsy and dumb. I think if I was the Jaguars I would have stayed at the 27th pick, picked up Groves and another DE in the second round or vice versa. Or better yet I am sure we could have just traded for Taylor and picked up Groves. It seems as if he is asking for way to much as if he thinks he is going to come in here and get Garrard money. Wow unbelievable!!! I know it is contradicting myself but what is going to become of the Jaguars of the future if we can't play our players top money to stay like other teams will and have? |
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