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| |  Posted Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:17 PM | |
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Last Login: Monday, August 11, 2008 7:21 PM
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| Not to be redundant, but this thread is awesome.
Those Who Stay Will Be Champions |
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| | | Posted Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:25 PM | |
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Last Login: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:14 PM
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| maize n blue (2/14/2008)
Not to be redundant, but this thread is awesome.
it is an 80's thread?
Congratulations to the 2008 WORLD Champions, your Philadelphia Phillies!
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| | | Posted Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:27 PM | |
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Last Login: Monday, August 11, 2008 7:21 PM
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| The Mad Dog (2/14/2008)
maize n blue (2/14/2008)
Not to be redundant, but this thread is awesome.it is an 80's thread? I believe that to be when this argument started, yes.
Those Who Stay Will Be Champions |
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| | | Posted Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:42 PM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:41 AM
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| The Mad Dog (2/13/2008)
FBT (2/13/2008)
The Mad Dog (2/13/2008)
FBT (2/13/2008)
The Mad Dog (2/13/2008)
GatorCountry (2/13/2008)
The Mad Dog (2/13/2008)
Gator Country....
While I agree in theory that obviously a better pass rush would have helped....are you aware that our pass defense was better last year than this year, and our pass rush was actually worse in 2006 than it was in 2007..
Well i agree with the fact that our pass defense was worse this year, But the blame does not fall fully onto Nelsons shoulders, Or to any player..... We had 2 new safeties come right in and start from day 1 which may have takin Rashean and Brian williams play down a level.. But i think to say the pass rush was better this season would be wrong.... Towards the end of our season we came on strong, But in the beginning of the season we had absolutely no pass rush whatsoever. In 06, our Rush wasnt Great by any means, But it was a tad more consistent than this years. Oh, the pass rush in 2006 was more consistent alright...but thats only because it was more "consistent: in its non existence. WHile you are right that this year's late season increase tends to skew this years stats, you still cannot take away the fact that that made this years rush better if only statistically. I get your point, though - they need to significantly address the pass rush. While Nelson is only a rookie and hopefully he will do better as the years go on, he certainly can be pointed out as a contributor to this years decline in pass defense. He wasn't blameless. There were missed assignments & blown coverages at times throughout this year. Deon Grant was most certainly a more sound football player in coverage. That doesn't equate to me saying "Reggie sucks" either, because that is not my intent. No, because you've NEVER started a thread indicating that Reggie was a potential bust. Our pass defense suffered more significantly because of a lack of any real pass rush. You'd know this if you actually saw a game and didn't put all your eggs in the stats basket. Hey...ANY James Harris (1st round) pick could be considered a "potential bust" even if it was Calvin Johnson. Shack doesn't exactly have the best track record in that area. If I had ever refered to Nelson as a "potential bust" that reflected more upon my opinion on Harris moreso than Nelson. And until Harris builds up a positive track record for the 1st rounders, I don't see why he should receive any "benefit of the doubt" in usch matters. Once he earns it, with track record, then it will be given. And regarding your other, what do you mean "if I actually saw a game". I've never missed ANY one Jaguars game in their history. I've watched them all, and have attended one in person, which was in 2006. I hope to see many more in person, but until then, I watch them all on TV. As do many other far away Jags fans. Also, you blamed the regression in pass defense solely to the pass rush....well then, if so explain 2006. Worse pass rush & better pass defense than 2007. I think you are being extremely stubborn if you cannot admit that Nelson instead of Grant was a contributing factor. READ what I said again and point out where I ever said anything about the regression being SOLELY due to the pass rush. Oops! Another one of your 'keen' observations blown up. Seeing how attentive you are to details like the difference between 'solely' and attributing significant weight to the lack of a consistent pass rush, it's probably a safe bet that your observations are pretty much half arsed in other areas as well. You're basing your entire premise on sacks, and that's NOT all there is to a pass rush. You'd know this if you weren't catching all the Jag games on a black and white TV in a "sports" bar in Philly. Of course, stats only matter to you when they support your entire premise. When they don't, you like to let us all know how they don't matter. The fact that the team got more sacks this year while NOT getting more consistent pressure on the QB means little with regard to having an effective pass rush. It's not just about sack stats. It's about forcing quarterbacks into rushing their delivery and making mistakes. It's about forcing a QB to get rid of a pass in less than 7 or 8 seconds, which this team CONSISTENTLY had trouble with this year. Feel free to cling to the sack stats to bolster your argument. It's a documented fact that you're a joke. This one simply adds another item to the list confirming that. BTW, we had exactly 2 more sacs in 2007 (37) than in 2006 (35). That bump in interceptions could also be attributed to our defensive secondary because a good percentage of our sacks were pure coverage sacks. The QB still had plenty of time to stand back there until one of our guys broke free. You'd know that if you were actually watching the games and not waiting your turn to sing Copa Cabana on the Karaoke machine at the "sports" bar in Philly. See, everyone... -I- tried to have a normal argument with him without it degenerating to "insults" but he just i incapable of that. Way back in one of your Greg Williams threads, I didn't even want to "normally argue"; but rather, just simply ask how Greg Williams would be an upgrade or help for the Jaguars. Yet, before anybody could respond, you were front and center to lash out at me being a self-preserving biased Colts fan because Williams coached the Titans when the Titans were beating the Colts. I wanted nothing more, and I stress nothing more, than to have a decent conversation about the topic at hand. I didn't even want to argue. Yet, you decided to go in attack mode, thinking me to be someone that was completely advocating the move from the start with one simple, innocent question. That's simply a taste of your own medicine.
Formerly Known As ICF/TheClotTroll Whac-A-Sorgi Weekdays: 25 cents. Sundays: Absolutely Free |
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| | | Posted Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:54 PM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:14 PM
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| ICF (2/14/2008)
The Mad Dog (2/13/2008)
FBT (2/13/2008)
The Mad Dog (2/13/2008)
FBT (2/13/2008)
The Mad Dog (2/13/2008)
GatorCountry (2/13/2008)
The Mad Dog (2/13/2008)
Gator Country....
While I agree in theory that obviously a better pass rush would have helped....are you aware that our pass defense was better last year than this year, and our pass rush was actually worse in 2006 than it was in 2007..
Well i agree with the fact that our pass defense was worse this year, But the blame does not fall fully onto Nelsons shoulders, Or to any player..... We had 2 new safeties come right in and start from day 1 which may have takin Rashean and Brian williams play down a level.. But i think to say the pass rush was better this season would be wrong.... Towards the end of our season we came on strong, But in the beginning of the season we had absolutely no pass rush whatsoever. In 06, our Rush wasnt Great by any means, But it was a tad more consistent than this years. Oh, the pass rush in 2006 was more consistent alright...but thats only because it was more "consistent: in its non existence. WHile you are right that this year's late season increase tends to skew this years stats, you still cannot take away the fact that that made this years rush better if only statistically. I get your point, though - they need to significantly address the pass rush. While Nelson is only a rookie and hopefully he will do better as the years go on, he certainly can be pointed out as a contributor to this years decline in pass defense. He wasn't blameless. There were missed assignments & blown coverages at times throughout this year. Deon Grant was most certainly a more sound football player in coverage. That doesn't equate to me saying "Reggie sucks" either, because that is not my intent. No, because you've NEVER started a thread indicating that Reggie was a potential bust. Our pass defense suffered more significantly because of a lack of any real pass rush. You'd know this if you actually saw a game and didn't put all your eggs in the stats basket. Hey...ANY James Harris (1st round) pick could be considered a "potential bust" even if it was Calvin Johnson. Shack doesn't exactly have the best track record in that area. If I had ever refered to Nelson as a "potential bust" that reflected more upon my opinion on Harris moreso than Nelson. And until Harris builds up a positive track record for the 1st rounders, I don't see why he should receive any "benefit of the doubt" in usch matters. Once he earns it, with track record, then it will be given. And regarding your other, what do you mean "if I actually saw a game". I've never missed ANY one Jaguars game in their history. I've watched them all, and have attended one in person, which was in 2006. I hope to see many more in person, but until then, I watch them all on TV. As do many other far away Jags fans. Also, you blamed the regression in pass defense solely to the pass rush....well then, if so explain 2006. Worse pass rush & better pass defense than 2007. I think you are being extremely stubborn if you cannot admit that Nelson instead of Grant was a contributing factor. READ what I said again and point out where I ever said anything about the regression being SOLELY due to the pass rush. Oops! Another one of your 'keen' observations blown up. Seeing how attentive you are to details like the difference between 'solely' and attributing significant weight to the lack of a consistent pass rush, it's probably a safe bet that your observations are pretty much half arsed in other areas as well. You're basing your entire premise on sacks, and that's NOT all there is to a pass rush. You'd know this if you weren't catching all the Jag games on a black and white TV in a "sports" bar in Philly. Of course, stats only matter to you when they support your entire premise. When they don't, you like to let us all know how they don't matter. The fact that the team got more sacks this year while NOT getting more consistent pressure on the QB means little with regard to having an effective pass rush. It's not just about sack stats. It's about forcing quarterbacks into rushing their delivery and making mistakes. It's about forcing a QB to get rid of a pass in less than 7 or 8 seconds, which this team CONSISTENTLY had trouble with this year. Feel free to cling to the sack stats to bolster your argument. It's a documented fact that you're a joke. This one simply adds another item to the list confirming that. BTW, we had exactly 2 more sacs in 2007 (37) than in 2006 (35). That bump in interceptions could also be attributed to our defensive secondary because a good percentage of our sacks were pure coverage sacks. The QB still had plenty of time to stand back there until one of our guys broke free. You'd know that if you were actually watching the games and not waiting your turn to sing Copa Cabana on the Karaoke machine at the "sports" bar in Philly. See, everyone... -I- tried to have a normal argument with him without it degenerating to "insults" but he just i incapable of that. Way back in one of your Greg Williams threads, I didn't even want to "normally argue"; but rather, just simply ask how Greg Williams would be an upgrade or help for the Jaguars. Yet, before anybody could respond, you were front and center to lash out at me being a self-preserving biased Colts fan because Williams coached the Titans when the Titans were beating the Colts. I wanted nothing more, and I stress nothing more, than to have a decent conversation about the topic at hand. I didn't even want to argue. Yet, you decided to go in attack mode, thinking me to be someone that was completely advocating the move from the start with one simple, innocent question. That's simply a taste of your own medicine.
I think you misunderstood what I was getting at in that thread you speak of. I wasn't bashing you. I was merely stating the POV (or so I thought, where you were coming from in your GregG Williams advice. IIRC, what kicked off my response to you was you saying that "you didn't think that Gregg Williams would be a wise move for the Jags", to which I summized you were making that statement with a bit of "self preservation" as a Colts fan....it would be similar to me saying something like "you know, ICF...I don't think it would be wise for your team to add Adam Vinatieri" when he was up for FA. (knowing full well that a move like that would hurt jax & help he Colts in our battle for division supremecy).
Look at it from my POV as a Jags fan...A Colt fan is coming on here, and initially opining that Gregg Williams wouldn't be a good fit for our team - am I not supposed to find that odd? considering Gregg Williams has a very solid background?
I really wasn't attacking you there though. Thats why I hate these boards sometimes, because as I was writing it, it wasn't meant to be malicious - (heck, it was meant as ribbing between fans of 2 competitive teams), but when you just have print on here, sometimes the perceived "intent" can be misinterpreted.
Congratulations to the 2008 WORLD Champions, your Philadelphia Phillies!
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| | | Posted Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:54 PM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, November 24, 2008 11:12 PM
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| nate (2/13/2008)
Psychop1 (2/13/2008)
HardcoreMoJagFan (2/13/2008)
"If you want me to narrow it down to one choice each round it would probably be:
1st: S Griffin (as I told you all he WILL be the best Safety to emerge from this draft.
2nd: DE Quentin Moses
3a: OG Manuel Ramirez
3b: Trent Edwards
4a: Zak DeOssie
4b: Aundrae Allison" Looking now at picks:
S Michael Griffin - 54 Tackles (41 solo) 3 Int's 1 FF, 7 PDs
S Reggie Nelson - 62 Tackles (57 solo) 1 sack, 5 Int's, 1 FF, 11 PDs DE Quentin Moses - 8 Tackles (7 solo) 1.5 sacks: cut twice
LB Justin Durant - 49 Tackles (40 solo) 1 sack, 1 Int, 2 PDs
OG Manuel Ramirez - DNP, Backup LG for Lions
QB Trent Edwards - 1,630 Yards, 7 TDs, 8 Ints, 70.4 Rating (Shows promise)
WR Mike Walker - DNP, IR LB Zak DeOssie - 6 Solo Tackles
WR Aundrae Allison - 8 Receptions 122 Yards, 1 KR Touchdown
P Adam Podlesh - 41.6 Punt Average, 14 in20, 6 in10, 2 TB
OLB Brian Smith - DNP, IR Bolded are the guys our front office drafted, obviously. We got Podlesh and Landri by not taking Trent Edwards. "I;m mad because none of these players drafted after Durant, other than maybe the punter, are going to amount to anything of relevance in this league.
Watch & see." AFC South QB Rankings 1. Manning 2. Schaub
3. Young
4. Leftwich Probably fine considering, but really what we know is Manning had another good year, Young had another bad year, Schaub was hurt a fair amount of the year, and Leftwich wasn't here. Donte Stallworth will be a GREAT signing! 46 receptions, 697 yards, (15.2 avg), 3 td's (6 years $33.1 Million dollars)
Damon Huard will have a spectacular year. 2,257 Yards 11 Tds, 13 Ints, 76.8 rating, didn't end season as starter (Spectacular, might be over doing it)
Quinn Gray will be a better QB than Byron Leftwich. Could be true, not enough info. Byron Leftwich will get injured - TRUE Dennis Northcutt (5 years $17 million) - 44 receptions, 601 yards (13.7 avg), 4 TD's I am not going to throw down to much judgement, I was just providing as much facts as I could.
Fact still remains we won't know about the draft selections for a couple more years (I am saving that PM)... but early indications have me extatic Mad Dog wasn't drafting for us... Interesting statline on Griffin and Nelson. Only one thing though. Griffin played in five less games than Nelson. You also never hear Titan fans complaining about Griffin blowing coverage. Griffin >>>> Nelson He got toasted a few times, and blew the contain that led to SD winning in OT. He got toasted once, in preseason, playing corner while covering Lee Evins. Yes, he got beat by Gates on one jump ball in that game. He's not perfect, only alot closer to perfect than Nelson. Nevermind that he also had seven tackles and an interception in that game.
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| | | Posted Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:55 PM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, November 24, 2008 11:12 PM
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| Omg Its Leftwich (2/13/2008)
Psychop1 (2/13/2008)
duece (2/13/2008)
Psychop1 (2/13/2008)
HardcoreMoJagFan (2/13/2008)
"If you want me to narrow it down to one choice each round it would probably be:
1st: S Griffin (as I told you all he WILL be the best Safety to emerge from this draft.
2nd: DE Quentin Moses
3a: OG Manuel Ramirez
3b: Trent Edwards
4a: Zak DeOssie
4b: Aundrae Allison" Looking now at picks:
S Michael Griffin - 54 Tackles (41 solo) 3 Int's 1 FF, 7 PDs
S Reggie Nelson - 62 Tackles (57 solo) 1 sack, 5 Int's, 1 FF, 11 PDs DE Quentin Moses - 8 Tackles (7 solo) 1.5 sacks: cut twice
LB Justin Durant - 49 Tackles (40 solo) 1 sack, 1 Int, 2 PDs
OG Manuel Ramirez - DNP, Backup LG for Lions
QB Trent Edwards - 1,630 Yards, 7 TDs, 8 Ints, 70.4 Rating (Shows promise)
WR Mike Walker - DNP, IR LB Zak DeOssie - 6 Solo Tackles
WR Aundrae Allison - 8 Receptions 122 Yards, 1 KR Touchdown
P Adam Podlesh - 41.6 Punt Average, 14 in20, 6 in10, 2 TB
OLB Brian Smith - DNP, IR Bolded are the guys our front office drafted, obviously. We got Podlesh and Landri by not taking Trent Edwards. "I;m mad because none of these players drafted after Durant, other than maybe the punter, are going to amount to anything of relevance in this league.
Watch & see." AFC South QB Rankings 1. Manning 2. Schaub
3. Young
4. Leftwich Probably fine considering, but really what we know is Manning had another good year, Young had another bad year, Schaub was hurt a fair amount of the year, and Leftwich wasn't here. Donte Stallworth will be a GREAT signing! 46 receptions, 697 yards, (15.2 avg), 3 td's (6 years $33.1 Million dollars)
Damon Huard will have a spectacular year. 2,257 Yards 11 Tds, 13 Ints, 76.8 rating, didn't end season as starter (Spectacular, might be over doing it)
Quinn Gray will be a better QB than Byron Leftwich. Could be true, not enough info. Byron Leftwich will get injured - TRUE Dennis Northcutt (5 years $17 million) - 44 receptions, 601 yards (13.7 avg), 4 TD's I am not going to throw down to much judgement, I was just providing as much facts as I could.
Fact still remains we won't know about the draft selections for a couple more years (I am saving that PM)... but early indications have me extatic Mad Dog wasn't drafting for us... Interesting statline on Griffin and Nelson. Only one thing though. Griffin played in five less games than Nelson. You also never hear Titan fans complaining about Griffin blowing coverage. Griffin >>>> Nelson Hey Psychop.....Let's not get stupid now. I don't think that Griffen is head and sholders better than Nelson nor vice versa. They were both rookies and both played well at times. yes Reggie blew some coverages but he also made some spectacular playes. I wouldn't trade one Michael Griffin for five Reggie Nelsons. Griffin was consistent, and helped our secondary to top ten against the pass. I guess in Jacksonville, coverage means nothing; just make a good play every few games. Griffin even owns that statline despite that his stats were often the result of him leaving his man to cover someone else's. He played sideline to sideline and excellent coverage anytime he was on the field. we couldnt produce no pass rush and yet Reggie still put up better stats then Griffin. Griffin had Van Den Bosch, Haynesworth, and Bulluckall pretty good pass rushers Check the statline again. Ten games versus fifteen??? Hello???
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| | | Posted Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:57 PM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, November 24, 2008 11:12 PM
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| Omg Its Leftwich (2/13/2008)
Im a clown? Yet you are the one getting made fun of everytime you post something.Opposed to making fun of himself every time he posts, which is why you're the clown.
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| | | Posted Friday, February 15, 2008 8:43 AM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:50 PM
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| Too bad the Tacks got Greg Williams.
"You can't knockout the champ if the ref doesn't make the count"
- Michael Wilbon on the Jags/Colts game |
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| | | Posted Friday, February 15, 2008 1:19 PM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, October 30, 2008 3:37 PM
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| The Mad Dog (2/14/2008)
duece (2/14/2008)
jtmoney (2/14/2008)
The Mad Dog (2/14/2008)
Bill4Jags (2/14/2008)
...and the winner of this debate gets...
A nice SHINNY button (red white and blue) that says "I won!" with stars and everything on it. It is a beautiful prize, no doubt, and an honor to behold.
That would be FBT. He is #1 on this message board. Don't believe me? Just ask him...lol. It's his destiny. Yo Bill....new Popeye avatar? Question TMD. I don't think it was asked. Looking back would you take your draft or the draft that Harrison had? It has only been a year, but knowing everything you know now which one would you pick? JTMoney....this is a great question. Also TMD let us know why you pick one over the other... I'd still take my draft, even though it wasn't perfect. Here's why... 1. I see Griffin developing into a better & more well rounded player at Safety, than Reggie Nelson. As said before, I think Michael Griffin in time will be proven to be the best Safety from the 2007 draft. 2. the Trent Edwards pick would have solved our backup QB issue that we will now have once Gray is gone. Edwards would have been a player who would have been better than the likely "journeyman QB" that we will replace Gray with. Plus, Edwards also would have been a guy who could have been the long term QB replacement, should any serious injury to Garrard occur. 3. Amhad Bradshaw could have been a quality replacement to Fred's part of the 1-2 punch, when Fred Taylor retires. As you all saw in the playoffs & down the stretch of the season, that Bradshaw kid is a good runner. 4. While Quentin Moses has not panned out yet, it is possible that his hasty release from the 2 teams (Oakland/ Arizona) last year can be pinned on "rookie head coach mistakes" as perhaps a more seasoned head coach may have understood that some draft picks take longer to develop than others. I think Moses has a better chance to start showing something this year, under Parcells hand picked staff. It is possible that Moses may have done better in Jax, with our coaches, but maybe not. If Moses shows little to nothing again this season, then this choice was a total bust. 5. I think Crosby will soon be among the ranks of the NFC's best kickers. Scobee isn't bad, but I think Crosby will go on to have an elite career as a kicker. As a rookie, he seemed to have good poise, confidence & a strong, accurate leg. Scobee has the strong leg, but sometimes doesn't instill me with the most confidence, as he appears nervous at times. You want your kicker to have ice in his veins. Like Hollis seemed to. The big miss from my draft and score for James Harris would appear to be the Justin Durant pick, although, I did address LB in mine with Zack DeOssie (4th rd)...so we'll see how he develops or not. I would call Moses a bust at this point and right now that's all you can do because we don't know what could happen. I think the biggest player that'll make or break whether Harris had a better draft then you is Mike Walker. If he becomes a number one then I'd give it to Harrison overall. Right now I might give you a slight edge because of Griffin, but Nelson isn't far behind. It's close. This year will be telling. Good response.
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