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RE: end of our econmy?

Buddhatut — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 08:23:52 GMT

[quote][b]Buddy Up To This (10/8/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Buddhatut (10/7/2008)[/b][hr]Great idea but it's a society driven on credit. If everyone stopped using credit what would happen to the world economy?[/quote]

Nothing bad would happen, that's for sure. Living within your means has always been the smart way to live.[/quote]

No doubt about that, and I'm one of those people that live on cash, I rarely use credit for anything and if I do I pay it off within six months at most. About the only thing I'll finance long term is a car or house.

RE: end of our econmy?

Buddhatut — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 08:21:53 GMT

[quote][b]the Chiefjag (10/8/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Buddhatut (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]the Chiefjag (10/5/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]ThisIsTheYear (10/5/2008)[/b][hr]It is the outsourcing of those manufacturing jobs that allow goods in this country to be as cheep as they are. Why are our auto manufactureres unable to compete with foreign car companeis.....labor cost. Outsourcing is a necessary evil in any global economy.

On a side note I found this hilarious spoof of PTI I thought yall would enjoy
http://www.digitalfuntown.com/videos/90[/quote]

This is partially true. What will happen eventually in this global economy is the manufacturing jobs will return when the labor market in Asia and S. America begin to demand a higher standard of living as they have in Mexico and Puerto Rico. In the 60's and 70's the U.S. manufacturers were running to Mexico and Puerto Rico for cheaper labor. As time went on the Mexican and Puerto Rican worker started demanding higher wages until their rate of pay was only slightly less than their equivalent U.S. laborer. Now there are no companies going to Mexico and Puerto Rico anymore simply because it's not economically advantageous for them.

I buy product from Indonesia and Vietnam because my customers want a dinner for $X amount of money. If I buy U.S. product the price of that dinner would be about 50% higher and the customers would go down the road and dine someplace else. Then I'd be out of business and my employees would be on welfare. What's ironic though is customers will complain about the loss of U.S. jobs but won't pay higher prices for U.S. made products. Sometimes I'll ask them, "do you want to pay $23 for a shrimp dinner or $16?"

Regards..............the Chiefjag[/quote]

Maybe we can discuss the economy without it being political.

From what I know, and I don't claim to be an expert, it's the high corporate taxes that cause outsourcing. You make it too expensive for a corporation to do buisness in the US and they move their buisness overseas. Can we blame them?[/quote]

I fail to see what is political in this discussion. The discussion is the migration of jobs overseas. There is no mention of a political party in the post.

It's not the high corporate taxes that move jobs overseas, it's the cheaper labor. Allow me to explain how big corporations get around paying taxes.

They set up a subsidiary in a foreign country which doesn't charge corporate earnings tax, or very little earning tax. Let's call the corporation Multiunit. Multiunit builds a product in Indonesia for $1 per each. They sell the product to the subsidiary Multiunit Annex in Bulgaria (which has no earnings tax) for $1 per each. Multiunit Annex then sells it in the U.S. for $5 generating a $4 profit. But since it's a Bulgarian company they don't pay U.S. earnings tax.

These deals can get very complicated and the example is an oversimplification of what actually occurs. However, avoiding U.S. taxes requires a skill set highly paid for in Corporate America. And by the way, I've been there.

Regards..............the Chiefjag[/quote]

CJ, it wasn't a political discussion but I was more directing that statement at the mods than anyone else. I've seen many a thread deleted because someone turned it political and I can see an economic discussion becoming political very easily.

I digress though, I agree with you, I think cheap labor AND the high taxes charged to corporations are both factors in why companies outsouce. I myself lost a job that I held for over 10 years because it was outsourced to India. All because they pay the worker less in India than they paid me for doing the same work. Lower quality work to be sure but the same work in their eyes.

RE: end of our econmy?

jagibelieve — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 05:36:01 GMT

[quote][b]Bill4Jags (10/8/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]jagibelieve (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Buddhatut (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote]
From what I know, and I don't claim to be an expert, it's the high corporate taxes that cause outsourcing. You make it too expensive for a corporation to do buisness in the US and they move their buisness overseas. Can we blame them?[/quote]
That's pretty much the case. It's not only corporate taxes, but taxes/regulations in general that cause businesses to outsource.[/quote]

I agree with the above but you have to add in what I think is THE major factor corporations outsourcing. Cheap labor. That's right folks cheap labor. The whole reason things like TV and stereos are no longer made in the USA is because China, Korea (and it used to be Japan as well until the population there wanted higher wages) do this stuff much more cheaply than Americans will ever do it.

You go to Wal-Mart looking for the cheapest price and I don't blame you. But to get that cheap price the things you want needs to be made cheaply as well. Hence, cheap labor wins.

On the bright side there is a shift happening in the world. The cheap labor of China and India for instance is getting more expensive as those workers there want a better life and therefore more money, better houses and cars etc. Add to this the rising cost of transporting those goods from across the ocean (fuel cost rising) and the USA workforce begins to look competitive (price-wise) again.

Sure taxes and whatnot have influence but it really does come down to the cost of actually making the widget people want to buy at the best price they can.[/quote]
I can agree that cheap labor also factors into a company moving over seas, however, the root cause of labor being more expensive in the U.S. is once again, taxes/regulations.

RE: end of our econmy?

the Chiefjag — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:46:28 GMT

This is a quality post. You are so right!

Regards...............the Chiefjag

RE: end of our econmy?

Buddy Up To This — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:31:34 GMT

[quote][b]Buddhatut (10/7/2008)[/b][hr]Great idea but it's a society driven on credit. If everyone stopped using credit what would happen to the world economy?[/quote]

Nothing bad would happen, that's for sure. Living within your means has always been the smart way to live.

RE: end of our econmy?

the Chiefjag — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:25:55 GMT

When I bought my first house in 1981 I could not get a mortgage that established my debt above 37% of my income. This figure was standard back then. In other words, if I made $1000 per month and had a car payment of $125, a student loan payment of $75 and that was all the debt I had my mortgage payment could not exceed $170 ($125 + $75+ $170 = $370 or 37% of $1000).

Regards............the Chiefjag

RE: end of our econmy?

the Chiefjag — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:59:02 GMT

[quote][b]Buddhatut (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]the Chiefjag (10/5/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]ThisIsTheYear (10/5/2008)[/b][hr]It is the outsourcing of those manufacturing jobs that allow goods in this country to be as cheep as they are. Why are our auto manufactureres unable to compete with foreign car companeis.....labor cost. Outsourcing is a necessary evil in any global economy.

On a side note I found this hilarious spoof of PTI I thought yall would enjoy
http://www.digitalfuntown.com/videos/90[/quote]

Regards..............the Chiefjag[/quote]

Maybe we can discuss the economy without it being political.

I fail to see what is political in this discussion. The discussion is the migration of jobs overseas. There is no mention of a political party in the post.

It's not the high corporate taxes that move jobs overseas, it's the cheaper labor. Allow me to explain how big corporations get around paying taxes.

Regards..............the Chiefjag

RE: end of our econmy?

duece — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:44:03 GMT

I can't think a truer post being made on this board in a long time Bill!

RE: end of our econmy?

Bill4Jags — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:11:52 GMT

[quote][b]jagibelieve (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Buddhatut (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote]
From what I know, and I don't claim to be an expert, it's the high corporate taxes that cause outsourcing. You make it too expensive for a corporation to do buisness in the US and they move their buisness overseas. Can we blame them?[/quote]
That's pretty much the case. It's not only corporate taxes, but taxes/regulations in general that cause businesses to outsource.[/quote]

I agree with the above but you have to add in what I think is THE major factor corporations outsourcing. Cheap labor. That's right folks cheap labor. The whole reason things like TV and stereos are no longer made in the USA is because China, Korea (and it used to be Japan as well until the population there wanted higher wages) do this stuff much more cheaply than Americans will ever do it.

You go to Wal-Mart looking for the cheapest price and I don't blame you. But to get that cheap price the things you want needs to be made cheaply as well. Hence, cheap labor wins.

On the bright side there is a shift happening in the world. The cheap labor of China and India for instance is getting more expensive as those workers there want a better life and therefore more money, better houses and cars etc. Add to this the rising cost of transporting those goods from across the ocean (fuel cost rising) and the USA workforce begins to look competitive (price-wise) again.

Sure taxes and whatnot have influence but it really does come down to the cost of actually making the widget people want to buy at the best price they can.

RE: end of our econmy?

JAGGATOR1 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:46:57 GMT

[quote][b]jones&24 (10/8/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]JAGGATOR1 (10/8/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]KingIngram052787 (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]jag4life00 (10/7/2008)[/b][hr]living below my means is what me the wife and kid are doing. had to swallow a hard pill last year, lost my first house, should have never bought it and didn't really understand what the ARM was, after all i was only 20, all i knew my rent was supposed to be the same as my mortgage.

anyways we have learned our hard lesson, moved my family in with grandparents and parents, its rough having 10 people in a 4 bedroom home, but its within our means. trying topay down all the debt, only have 1 ccleft the rest is medical bils.

but thats what its going to take to turn this thing around, people have tocut back and learn to live without credit.[/quote]

Cash baby, all cash.[/quote]

You may be lucky if that money will be worth the paper its even printed on in the next year or two. The bailout plan could potentially be extremely inflationary. Couple that with a "blue" commander in chief and "blue" majority in DC...you can kiss the US economy goodbye.[/quote]To be fair, their "red" counterparts have already done a pretty good job of it.[/quote]

I will agree they didn't help the situation at all, but it started long before the most recent "boom"....and I think everyone had there "hand in the cookie jar" on this meltdown....you could go as far back as the 70's to see this situation slowly start to snow ball. Also, Fannie and Freddie were investigated back in 2000-2001 and were fined $400 million dollars because of serious fraud issues going on back then. There were signs all along this path and yet many people were "asleep at the wheel". Yet amazingly not one executive or politician has yet to be convicted of doing anything wrong or subject to jail.

RE: end of our econmy?

jones&24 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:03:08 GMT

[quote][b]JAGGATOR1 (10/8/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]KingIngram052787 (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]jag4life00 (10/7/2008)[/b][hr]living below my means is what me the wife and kid are doing. had to swallow a hard pill last year, lost my first house, should have never bought it and didn't really understand what the ARM was, after all i was only 20, all i knew my rent was supposed to be the same as my mortgage.

anyways we have learned our hard lesson, moved my family in with grandparents and parents, its rough having 10 people in a 4 bedroom home, but its within our means. trying topay down all the debt, only have 1 ccleft the rest is medical bils.

but thats what its going to take to turn this thing around, people have tocut back and learn to live without credit.[/quote]

Cash baby, all cash.[/quote]

You may be lucky if that money will be worth the paper its even printed on in the next year or two. The bailout plan could potentially be extremely inflationary. Couple that with a "blue" commander in chief and "blue" majority in DC...you can kiss the US economy goodbye.[/quote]To be fair, their "red" counterparts have already done a pretty good job of it.

RE: end of our econmy?

JAGGATOR1 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:47:36 GMT

Stock market continues in its tale spin...global economies are going in the toilet even after news of the bailout...its panic now.

The Fed, Bank of England, European Central Bank, have joined Canada, China, Sweden and Switzerland in a global effort to try and curtail it.

And yet we have the chairman of the NYSE saying that if the credit markets don't loosen things could get dire....yeah, lets just prolong the agony.

amazing....Eventually there is going to be a backlash from this "bailout" and it won't be pretty.

RE: end of our econmy?

JAGGATOR1 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:29:20 GMT

[quote][b]KingIngram052787 (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]jag4life00 (10/7/2008)[/b][hr]living below my means is what me the wife and kid are doing. had to swallow a hard pill last year, lost my first house, should have never bought it and didn't really understand what the ARM was, after all i was only 20, all i knew my rent was supposed to be the same as my mortgage.

anyways we have learned our hard lesson, moved my family in with grandparents and parents, its rough having 10 people in a 4 bedroom home, but its within our means. trying topay down all the debt, only have 1 ccleft the rest is medical bils.

but thats what its going to take to turn this thing around, people have tocut back and learn to live without credit.[/quote]

Cash baby, all cash.[/quote]

You may be lucky if that money will be worth the paper its even printed on in the next year or two. The bailout plan could potentially be extremely inflationary. Couple that with a "blue" commander in chief and "blue" majority in DC...you can kiss the US economy goodbye.

RE: end of our econmy?

JAGGATOR1 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:28:23 GMT

[quote][b]oface5446 (10/8/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]JAGGATOR1 (10/8/2008)[/b][hr]More interesting information....I've only posted part of the complete discussion because it relates to the bailout, but I would also recommend looking at the first 3 parts to get some background on Fannie and Freddie.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8XU5XhwdyY&feature=related]The Bailout[/url][/quote]

I think [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ebiaz2yER4]this one[/url]'s better.

...I can't believe the guy is still on tv.[/quote]

Cramer is always going to give it to you straight.

The funny thing is that investment group I sighted was saying the Fannie and Freddie were headed for a meltdown and it would eventually need to be bailed out long before it happened....back in the summer of 2007.

RE: end of our econmy?

oface5446 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:18:04 GMT

[quote][b]JAGGATOR1 (10/8/2008)[/b][hr]More interesting information....I've only posted part of the complete discussion because it relates to the bailout, but I would also recommend looking at the first 3 parts to get some background on Fannie and Freddie.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8XU5XhwdyY&feature=related]The Bailout[/url][/quote]

I think [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ebiaz2yER4]this one[/url]'s better.

...I can't believe the guy is still on tv.

RE: end of our econmy?

JAGGATOR1 — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 09:48:30 GMT

More interesting information....I've only posted part of the complete discussion because it relates to the bailout, but I would also recommend looking at the first 3 parts to get some background on Fannie and Freddie.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8XU5XhwdyY&feature=related]The Bailout[/url]

RE: end of our econmy?

jagibelieve — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:05:13 GMT

[quote][b]Buddhatut (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote]
From what I know, and I don't claim to be an expert, it's the high corporate taxes that cause outsourcing. You make it too expensive for a corporation to do buisness in the US and they move their buisness overseas. Can we blame them?[/quote]
That's pretty much the case. It's not only corporate taxes, but taxes/regulations in general that cause businesses to outsource.

RE: end of our econmy?

jagibelieve — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:01:18 GMT

[quote][b]cici414 (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]jagibelieve (10/7/2008)[/b][hr] Again, google the Community Reinvestment Act...... [/quote]

I have, and it appears that the Community Reinvestment Act had little to do with the current financial crisis. The Act is just a convenient scapegoat for those that don't want to admit that greed and deregulation caused this mess.[/quote]
I somewhat agree with you, but maybe not in the same way. Yes greed has a lot to do with it, but it's NOT solely on Wall Street. It's greed by the government all the way down to the low income consumer.

Though the Community Reinvestment Act is not the sole reason, that bill is actually what started the whole mess. It was used by community activist groups, one of the biggest ones being ACORN, to force banks to make higher risk loans.

The next agency to look at is the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). The agency required that two government-chartered mortgage finance firms (Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac) purchase far more "affordable" loans. Between 1994 and 2003 the amount of sub-prime loans purchased by the two firms increased by 25% per year. This in turn encouraged more banks to issue such loans, thus creating a housing bubble. One of the biggest lending institutions involved is Countrywide.

As more and more is revealed, and as I research the issues more and more, it's pretty obvious that corruption within some very high levels of government and lending institutions kept the mess going.

I still haven't put together the whole story, but for some interesting reading, google the following.

Community Reinvestment Act
ACORN
J.P. Morgan
Chase Manhattan
Countrywide
Fannie Mae
Freddy Mac

One thing to note is a trend and a relationship with certain individuals within the government with all of those institutions/topics. As I said, I haven't put together the whole truth yet. I don't have as much time to research online as I used to. One thing to note also. Quite a few people will disregard Wikipedia as a credible source, and though I don't take everything written there as the whole truth, quite a bit of is footnoted with links to other sources. I've followed a lot of links to come to my conclusions.

RE: end of our econmy?

KingIngram052787 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 17:16:13 GMT

[quote][b]jag4life00 (10/7/2008)[/b][hr]living below my means is what me the wife and kid are doing. had to swallow a hard pill last year, lost my first house, should have never bought it and didn't really understand what the ARM was, after all i was only 20, all i knew my rent was supposed to be the same as my mortgage.

anyways we have learned our hard lesson, moved my family in with grandparents and parents, its rough having 10 people in a 4 bedroom home, but its within our means. trying to pay down all the debt, only have 1 cc left the rest is medical bils.

but thats what its going to take to turn this thing around, people have to cut back and learn to live without credit. [/quote]

Cash baby, all cash.

RE: end of our econmy?

cici414 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:58:01 GMT

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7MvXUDrZ0Q]Depressing News[/url]

RE: end of our econmy?

jag4life00 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:53:13 GMT

living below my means is what me the wife and kid are doing. had to swallow a hard pill last year, lost my first house, should have never bought it and didn't really understand what the ARM was, after all i was only 20, all i knew my rent was supposed to be the same as my mortgage.

but thats what its going to take to turn this thing around, people have to cut back and learn to live without credit.

RE: end of our econmy?

jones&24 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:33:07 GMT

[quote][b]Buddhatut (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]jones&24 (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Buddhatut (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]the Chiefjag (10/5/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]ThisIsTheYear (10/5/2008)[/b][hr]It is the outsourcing of those manufacturing jobs that allow goods in this country to be as cheep as they are. Why are our auto manufactureres unable to compete with foreign car companeis.....labor cost. Outsourcing is a necessary evil in any global economy.

On a side note I found this hilarious spoof of PTI I thought yall would enjoy
http://www.digitalfuntown.com/videos/90[/quote]

Regards..............the Chiefjag[/quote]

Maybe we can discuss the economy without it being political.

Perhaps. I still think America should do what it can to make things less expensive for a company to do buisness rather than more expensive. What the heck do I know though? I'm just the middle class little guy?[/quote]Me too. :(

RE: end of our econmy?

Buddhatut — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:15:15 GMT

[quote][b]jones&24 (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Buddhatut (10/7/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]the Chiefjag (10/5/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]ThisIsTheYear (10/5/2008)[/b][hr]It is the outsourcing of those manufacturing jobs that allow goods in this country to be as cheep as they are. Why are our auto manufactureres unable to compete with foreign car companeis.....labor cost. Outsourcing is a necessary evil in any global economy.

On a side note I found this hilarious spoof of PTI I thought yall would enjoy
http://www.digitalfuntown.com/videos/90[/quote]

Regards..............the Chiefjag[/quote]

Maybe we can discuss the economy without it being political.

RE: end of our econmy?

jones&24 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:02:05 GMT

On a side note I found this hilarious spoof of PTI I thought yall would enjoy
http://www.digitalfuntown.com/videos/90[/quote]

Regards..............the Chiefjag[/quote]

Maybe we can discuss the economy without it being political.

RE: end of our econmy?

Buddhatut — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:43:13 GMT

[quote][b]the Chiefjag (10/5/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]ThisIsTheYear (10/5/2008)[/b][hr]It is the outsourcing of those manufacturing jobs that allow goods in this country to be as cheep as they are. Why are our auto manufactureres unable to compete with foreign car companeis.....labor cost. Outsourcing is a necessary evil in any global economy.

On a side note I found this hilarious spoof of PTI I thought yall would enjoy
http://www.digitalfuntown.com/videos/90[/quote]

Regards..............the Chiefjag[/quote]

Maybe we can discuss the economy without it being political.

RE: end of our econmy?

Buddhatut — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:36:29 GMT

[quote][b]the Chiefjag (10/4/2008)[/b][hr]It's time America and it's citizens stop living beyond their means. Stop living on credit cards. If you can't afford it don't buy it.

All those bad mortgages in the market are the result of two parties, the lenders and buyers. Both parties should know if the buyer can afford it.

Regards...............the Chiefjag (who's still driving a 1999 Buick)[/quote]

Great idea but it's a society driven on credit. If everyone stopped using credit what would happen to the world economy?

RE: end of our econmy?

JAGGATOR1 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 09:01:29 GMT

Yeah....the fact that there were a lot of "no doc", "stated income" loans is/was just downright ridiculous. You would think that bank statements and a couple of years worth of tax returns would be at LEAST a minimum for some of these folks.

"Hi. I'm Joe Broke. I'm a landscape laborer and make $75,000 a year. I want to buy a house in that nice, new clean gated community over there. Can I have my interest only loan for that model home with all the upgrades? Great! Thanks!"

RE: end of our econmy?

MalabarJag — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 08:50:16 GMT

[quote][b]jagibelieve (10/7/2008)[/b][hr] I personally know of a young single guy that earns roughly $50,000 per year get a home loan for very little down on a &250,000+ home. Needless to say that due to life changes he is now struggling to keep up. [/quote]

That's a lot less risky than many of the loans I've been hearing about. A young guy would be expected to advance to higher salary levels, and there's potentially additional income from a wife sometime in the future.

RE: end of our econmy?

JAGGATOR1 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 08:35:59 GMT

RE: end of our econmy?

cici414 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 06:19:07 GMT

[quote][b]jagibelieve (10/7/2008)[/b][hr] Again, google the Community Reinvestment Act...... [/quote]

I have, and it appears that the Community Reinvestment Act had little to do with the current financial crisis. The Act is just a convenient scapegoat for those that don't want to admit that greed and deregulation caused this mess.

RE: end of our econmy?

jagibelieve — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 05:53:07 GMT

[quote][b]the Chiefjag (10/5/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]C-BusJagsFan (10/4/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]the Chiefjag (10/4/2008)[/b][hr]It's time America and it's citizens stop living beyond their means. Stop living on credit cards. If you can't afford it don't buy it. [/quote]
[/quote]

It pains me to see somebody say, "I want to live like them" and then buy stuff they can't afford. If they don't have the income those others have they can't live like them.

[/quote]
That is certainly part of the problem, people living beyond their means and trying to "keep up with the Joneses" so to speak. How many people have bought hi definition tv's, have cable or satellite service, cell phone service, ipods, etc. yet can't really afford them?

Another part of the problem is banks allowing these people to have loans/credit too easily. Over the past 10-15 years you could basically get a loan or credit card as long as you had a pulse. I personally know of a young single guy that earns roughly $50,000 per year get a home loan for very little down on a &250,000+ home. Needless to say that due to life changes he is now struggling to keep up.

Combine those two things along with organizations backed by the government that basically force banks to make those loans. Again, google the Community Reinvestment Act and look at the history of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac.

RE: end of our econmy?

BASE_D — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 00:59:18 GMT

With things being so bad, I'm just about ready to take a look at the ballot next month, see who's the incumbent, and vote directly the opposite candidate and party.

Everybody deserves to be fired

RE: end of our econmy?

the Chiefjag — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 17:40:20 GMT

[quote][b]ThisIsTheYear (10/5/2008)[/b][hr]It is the outsourcing of those manufacturing jobs that allow goods in this country to be as cheep as they are. Why are our auto manufactureres unable to compete with foreign car companeis.....labor cost. Outsourcing is a necessary evil in any global economy.

On a side note I found this hilarious spoof of PTI I thought yall would enjoy
http://www.digitalfuntown.com/videos/90[/quote]

Regards..............the Chiefjag

RE: end of our econmy?

ThisIsTheYear — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 16:08:55 GMT

It is the outsourcing of those manufacturing jobs that allow goods in this country to be as cheep as they are. Why are our auto manufactureres unable to compete with foreign car companeis.....labor cost. Outsourcing is a necessary evil in any global economy.

On a side note I found this hilarious spoof of PTI I thought yall would enjoy
http://www.digitalfuntown.com/videos/90

RE: end of our econmy?

Byron LeftTown — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:23:25 GMT

[quote][b]Funkapotumus (10/1/2008)[/b][hr]We don't make anything anymore. All the factories have shut down....[/quote]

That's not true at all. We make BURGERS. Every Mickey-Ds is now considered a factory. Yes, folks, if you work at McDonalds that is now counted as a MANUFACTURING JOB. Putting a chunk of meat on a bun is MANUFACTURING a burger.

This is one of the ways the government has concealed the almost total exportation of our manufacturing base. Just like the unemployment numbers do not include anyone who has been UNABLE to find employment within 6 months of losing their job. Those people are now counted as EMPLOYED in the official statistics. And the official inflation index does not include stuff like food or energy. It measures the price of things like clock radios - as if the average person buys a bunch of clock radios every month instead of gasoline or food.

RE: end of our econmy?

the Chiefjag — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 13:13:52 GMT

[quote][b]C-BusJagsFan (10/4/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]the Chiefjag (10/4/2008)[/b][hr]It's time America and it's citizens stop living beyond their means. Stop living on credit cards. If you can't afford it don't buy it. [/quote]

That's exactly the kind of renegade talk that nobody wants to hear. Just ask Ron Paul. Nobody heard what he had to say, and I'd wager that that is exactly the way that the media and the American political entity as a whole like it.[/quote]

It pains me to see somebody say, "I want to live like them" and then buy stuff they can't afford. If they don't have the income those others have they can't live like them.

Personally, the only debt I have is my home, of which I put down 50% of the price 18 years ago. I buy cars with cash. This economy isn't hurting me much, other than my retirement investments are declining, but they'll come back.

Regards.............the Chiefjag

RE: end of our econmy?

Jags02 — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 18:46:43 GMT

[quote][b]Bill4Jags (10/4/2008)[/b][hr]On another note: I bought gas today for $3.47 a gallon and was happy about it. Crazy to be happy about that price huh? Time changes minds.[/quote]

Across the street from my house here in Oregon, regular unleaded is $3.29.

RE: end of our econmy?

C-BusJagsFan — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 18:42:30 GMT

[quote][b]the Chiefjag (10/4/2008)[/b][hr]It's time America and it's citizens stop living beyond their means. Stop living on credit cards. If you can't afford it don't buy it. [/quote]

RE: end of our econmy?

Bill4Jags — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 17:32:03 GMT

[quote][b]the Chiefjag (10/4/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]RnRoutlaw (10/4/2008)[/b][hr]I just want to know what I get in return? I pay points on a loan to a bank that my tax dollars are going to pay to bail out. Seems like if I pay interest on the money the loan me, I should get interest on the money I'm "loaning" them to survive right?[/quote]

Supposedly they are paying back with interest, that is after the market rebounds and the properties are worth more.[/quote]

It's been explained to me that the US is buying this toxic mortgage paper in the hopes that the housing market will eventually rebound. Then they can actually sell it for a profit. Whether or not this benefit the taxpayer remains to be seen. I tend to think the real estate values won't go down forever. I may be foolish to be optimistic on this but I'm old enough now to have seen many things that seemed quite grim at the time turn out for the better over time.

Remember when they bailed out Chrysler? From what I understand the taxpayers profited from it in the long run and saved quite a few American jobs in the short run.

It is however quite nerve racking. Hope this works out for my children and grand children. I'll be long gone by time it's pay the piper time.

On another note: I bought gas today for $3.47 a gallon and was happy about it. Crazy to be happy about that price huh? Time changes minds.

RE: end of our econmy?

the Chiefjag — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 14:49:40 GMT

[quote][b]RnRoutlaw (10/4/2008)[/b][hr]I just want to know what I get in return? I pay points on a loan to a bank that my tax dollars are going to pay to bail out. Seems like if I pay interest on the money the loan me, I should get interest on the money I'm "loaning" them to survive right?[/quote]

Supposedly they are paying back with interest, that is after the market rebounds and the properties are worth more.