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RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

JaxJag_1 — Sat, 17 May 2008 07:38:15 GMT

[quote][b]Su héroe (5/17/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]John Henry (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]ruger (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]turftoe (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]FBT (5/16/2008)[/b][hr]Maybe this is why: http://photos.jacksonville.com/mycapture/enlarge.asp?userphoto=0&image=18885406&thispage=1

That's a double team that'll wear anyone out[/quote]
Looks like Vince got more ink done, finished the rest of his arm. Sweet.[/quote]

I saw Marcedes Lewis at the mall yesterday sporting a beard and some new ink all the way down his left forearm.[/quote]

If you look through one of the Jaguars OTA's albums from T-U, Brad Meester got a new tattoo on his upper right bicep

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Su héroe — Sat, 17 May 2008 00:17:04 GMT

[quote][b]John Henry (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]ruger (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]turftoe (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]FBT (5/16/2008)[/b][hr]Maybe this is why: http://photos.jacksonville.com/mycapture/enlarge.asp?userphoto=0&image=18885406&thispage=1

That's a double team that'll wear anyone out[/quote]
Looks like Vince got more ink done, finished the rest of his arm. Sweet.[/quote]

I saw Marcedes Lewis at the mall yesterday sporting a beard and some new ink all the way down his left forearm.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Bjagfan — Fri, 16 May 2008 22:31:41 GMT

[quote][b]Jag Fanatic (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]I hate to say I told you so......Spicer will be cut.[/quote]

http://mb.jaguars.com/Topic519388-6-1.aspx Wait... you're not trying to bring this up are you?

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Bjagfan — Fri, 16 May 2008 20:32:08 GMT

[quote][b]John Henry (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]ruger (5/16/2008)[/b][hr]Maybe this is why: http://photos.jacksonville.com/mycapture/enlarge.asp?userphoto=0&image=18885406&thispage=1

That's a double team that'll wear anyone out[/quote]
Looks like Vince got more ink done, finished the rest of his arm. Sweet.[/quote]

Makes me wonder if there's been any progress with the leg too??!??

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

John Henry — Fri, 16 May 2008 19:16:57 GMT

[quote][b]ruger (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]turftoe (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]FBT (5/16/2008)[/b][hr]Maybe this is why: http://photos.jacksonville.com/mycapture/enlarge.asp?userphoto=0&image=18885406&thispage=1

That's a double team that'll wear anyone out[/quote]
Looks like Vince got more ink done, finished the rest of his arm. Sweet.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Rashean27Mathis — Fri, 16 May 2008 14:36:15 GMT

[quote][b]FBT (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]

He's coming off of a career year where his performance both on and off the field was good enough that the coaching staff slapped a 'C' on his jersey.

He's got PLENTY of leverage when you look at the roster. The team doesn't exactly have stellar, proven depth at DE behind him. He has been the most consistent players on the defensive line in recent years, and he has also consistently improved from one season to the next during his time here. His improvement was notable enough that he was the last man standing when the team decided to part ways with Hugh Douglas AND Tony Brackens in the same off season. [/quote]

wow, FBT, I know we don't see eye to eye on many things but if i were a coach on the Jags, I would have given him an ''A'' or at least a ''B''-plus. Unless we are talking about cup size, then he looks like a small "C". I love the dead zone. ha ha ha

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Su héroe — Fri, 16 May 2008 13:50:22 GMT

[quote][b]FBT (5/16/2008)[/b][hr]

He's coming off of a career year where his performance both on and off the field was good enough that the coaching staff slapped a 'C' on his jersey.

The team obviously agrees with that sentiment, or they wouldn't have made an offer to begin with. [/quote]

Nice point. Spicer has plenty of leverage in this. He was not only one of our captains, he was THE best player on our D Line and was the emotional leader of our D after Mike Pete went down.

Those will be the 3 reasons Spicer will still be a Jag in 2008.
1.) The "C" on his jersey
2.) Leadership
3.) Still productive

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Caldrac — Fri, 16 May 2008 13:08:47 GMT

[quote][b]JaxFlJon (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]thx for ninja looting my sources! :pinch:[/quote]

YOU PLAY WORLD OF WARCRAFT! ME TOO! LMAO GG PWNED!!!!

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

JagsFanJon2 — Fri, 16 May 2008 11:28:24 GMT

Interesting that Vince was lined up @ RG.

Guess its more OTA manuvering.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

ruger — Fri, 16 May 2008 10:44:56 GMT

[quote][b]turftoe (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]FBT (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Stigma (5/16/2008)[/b][hr]While this is a bit off-topic, has anyone heard anything about how Reggie Hayward looks running around at the two OTA's? I realize that we will not know much about his physical condition until the team puts on pads, but it would be nice to hear that Hayward appears to be running well and that he feels he will be back close to 100% when Training Camp comes around.[/quote]

When this subject came up the other day with Ketchman on the radio, he said that they only ran 12 plays during the first practice. That was the extent of the details he offered before changing the subject.[/quote]

Take this for what it is worth but Hacker on 1010 reported after the first OTA that Reggie looked very winded and tired. [/quote]

Maybe this is why: http://photos.jacksonville.com/mycapture/enlarge.asp?userphoto=0&image=18885406&thispage=1

That's a double team that'll wear anyone out

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

FBT — Fri, 16 May 2008 08:36:56 GMT

And Ketchman reported the opposite when asked if anyone on the team looked out of shape.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

turftoe — Fri, 16 May 2008 08:32:29 GMT

[quote][b]FBT (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Stigma (5/16/2008)[/b][hr]While this is a bit off-topic, has anyone heard anything about how Reggie Hayward looks running around at the two OTA's? I realize that we will not know much about his physical condition until the team puts on pads, but it would be nice to hear that Hayward appears to be running well and that he feels he will be back close to 100% when Training Camp comes around.[/quote]

Take this for what it is worth but Hacker on 1010 reported after the first OTA that Reggie looked very winded and tired.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

FBT — Fri, 16 May 2008 08:21:19 GMT

[quote][b]Stigma (5/16/2008)[/b][hr]While this is a bit off-topic, has anyone heard anything about how Reggie Hayward looks running around at the two OTA's? I realize that we will not know much about his physical condition until the team puts on pads, but it would be nice to hear that Hayward appears to be running well and that he feels he will be back close to 100% when Training Camp comes around.[/quote]

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

FBT — Fri, 16 May 2008 08:19:55 GMT

[quote][b]piggyback (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]shag52 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]"No, he doesn't hold out long term. He has no leverage."

If you don't think he has no leverage then you better think again... the Jags have a "high" dollar DE whos playing on one leg... they have two rookies who have NEVER taken the first snap in the NFL and they let a DE walk who has had more sacks than ANY Jaguar DE in the last several years...[/quote]

If they thought Spicer was indispensible, they wouldn't have taken those two DE's in the draft. That's why they offered him what they did. They know what his services are worth. They can't pay him AND a first round pick big money.[/quote]

Those selections weren't any sort of indictment against Spicer. They were a continuation of the mindset that you have to continually have one eye on the future when stocking your roster. Spicer IS 32 years old. Hayward DOES have issues with both Achilles tendons. The depth behind these two veterans isn't exactly Pro Bowl material.

They most certainly can pay him a reasonable contract while paying their first round pick. You do understand how the salary cap works, right?

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Stigma — Fri, 16 May 2008 07:31:38 GMT

While this is a bit off-topic, has anyone heard anything about how Reggie Hayward looks running around at the two OTA's? I realize that we will not know much about his physical condition until the team puts on pads, but it would be nice to hear that Hayward appears to be running well and that he feels he will be back close to 100% when Training Camp comes around.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

PaulVonMexico — Fri, 16 May 2008 06:04:05 GMT

My Thoughts:

1. Spicer Has Leverage: No Proven Depth, Coming off a Career Year, Outstanding Team Leader.

2. He Loses Some of that Based on His Age, And The Fact That The Jaguars Drafted To Replace Him, and Probably wouldnt be inclined to keep him more then a couple of years if the Picks work out as they hope.

3. It is extrodianarily Early in the offseason, so while the Jaguars made him an offer, why in the world would anyone Expect it to be their Best/Final Offer. They don't need him in the fold in May, and Spicer/Rosenhous I Am preety confident in the fact believe this as well.

Much like most on here I believe the Jaguars Are better off with him then without. I also believe he deserves a raise, and think that at the end of the day it will get done.

What i think is fair: 3-5 Mil in Bonuses with average Salaries of 3mil over 3 years.

PVM

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

piggyback — Fri, 16 May 2008 05:23:31 GMT

[quote][b]shag52 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]"No, he doesn't hold out long term. He has no leverage."

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Jags02 — Fri, 16 May 2008 04:21:18 GMT

[quote][b]maize n blue (5/16/2008)[/b][hr]I'd like to state that I think it's in the Jaguars best interests to sign Spicer to any reasonable contract offer. I believe he's earned more money.

That said, I really don't see the team caving to demands that they deem to be unwarranted. They have a deal in place with Spicer. While no other player on the roster can do what Spicer does, we aren't up a creek without him. Is anyone losing sleep over a 1st & 2nd down lineup of Hayward & Harvey at DE? What about 3rd down with Harvey and Groves?

I think he's due more cash after the job he did last season, but exactly how much is the question.[/quote]

The big questionmark in all of this is Reggie Hayward. I'm even wondering if Spicer knows something about Hayward's injury being worse than he's letting on, and is perhaps holding out knowing this. But that's sheer speculation on my part. But I do keep wondering if Hayward might be back now that he's two years removed from his injury. But then I think, even if he is, he almost has to command a starting position to be worth his base salary, and I'm always left with thinking there's no way he beats out Spicer. But now, with Spicer holding out, I'm not so sure. I keep reading that Hayward is working out like a madman determined to start. If Hayward can prove that he's back, maybe he deserves the contract extension and starting LDE role instead of Spicer.

Now I'm not holding my breath that Hayward will be able to prove as much, but it's getting interesting. Should Hayward edge out Spicer, I imagine the Jaguars should be able to pick up a 4th or 5th round pick for him. I'd hate to lose Spicer, but hold-outs like this often end sour. Teams never want to give in too quickly to someone holding out because that only inspires others to do so. Jimmy Smith held out until mere days before the Regular Season began.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

maize n blue — Fri, 16 May 2008 02:42:32 GMT

I'd like to state that I think it's in the Jaguars best interests to sign Spicer to any reasonable contract offer. I believe he's earned more money.

I think he's due more cash after the job he did last season, but exactly how much is the question.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

jagsfan06 — Fri, 16 May 2008 00:38:20 GMT

Spicer also has added value in that you can move him inside on passing downs when you bring in your edge rushers or DPR's.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

FBT — Fri, 16 May 2008 00:25:19 GMT

[quote][b]Bjagfan (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]JAGFANSINCE94 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]

If he tried that, the Jags would call his bluff. he loses, if he sits out.[/quote]

Tell that to his agent Drew R. I don't know why players still employ that fool.[/quote]

Yeah, he's such a fool. Spicer should hire an agent that gets him the smallest contract he possibly can to help the team, right?

You do understand that it's his agent's job to get him the MAXIMUM amount he can get, right? Considering the fact that Rosenhaus is one of the best in the business in that regard, who's the fool?

I always enjoy it when people pull this card and throw hate at agents for basically doing their job well. How dare they!

As far as Spicer having little or no leverage, think again. He's got a LOT of leverage in this situation.

Think about it.

He's coming off of a career year where his performance both on and off the field was good enough that the coaching staff slapped a 'C' on his jersey.

If he sticks to his position and forces the team to make a difficult decision, they're left with 2 rookies, a guy with a broken hip, a guy with two surgically corrected Achilles tendons, 3 unproven backups that spent a good portion of last season on the practice squad or on the IR, and a couple of DPRs that are basically undersized ends / linebackers.

MAYBE the rookies can step in and have an immediate and substantive impact. Or, MAYBE those rookies will have to endure the normal learning curve that affects most guys entering the league.

MAYBE Hayward rebounds completely from his Achilles injury/surgeries. Or, MAYBE he doesn't buck the trend, and never gets quite back to where he was prior to the injury.

MAYBE Brian Smith rebounds from his broken hip that has prevented him from doing anything other than trotting on the sideline since being drafted by the Jaguars in 2007. Or, MAYBE he will continue to struggle with an injury because his work ethic is on par with Matt Jones.

MAYBE Wyche/Pettway/Mincey can fill the Spicer role. Or, MAYBE they'll be in the same spot that they were in last year.

The bottom line is pretty simple. The team is better with Spicer than without. Some say they wouldn't lose any sleep if he was gone. That's good because you'll have plenty of time to rest come January when the team is sitting home for the post season because Spicer wasn't given a contract bump. He's more critical to the success of this team than some of you realize. He understands this, and he is attempting to cash in on that value.

With the team on the cusp of a season that could be a special one, letting one of the vital cogs on your roster linger with contract issues, opting to play hardball and not pay the man what he's worth would seem to be contrary to what this team needs right now.

The team obviously agrees with that sentiment, or they wouldn't have made an offer to begin with.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Byron LeftTown — Fri, 16 May 2008 00:23:38 GMT

Spicer is treading on thin ice here. He senses a weakness in both the Jaguars' position and his own position. So he's going all-in, forcing the opponent to make a decision based on scanty information. Will the rookie DEs be starting-material, and if so, how soon is it going to happen? Since the Jags do not yet know the answers, it makes sense for Spicer to force the issue. If the Jags knew for sure that Harvey would be starting by the 5th game and Groves would have a big impact on passing-downs, then they could tell Spicer to walk - but they don't know that and Spicer is trying to bank some bucks before the Jags have a chance to find out.

If you look at it from Spicer's view, say he plays out his current contract,, which has only the 2008 season remaining. By the end of the season, the rookies will probably be making an impact and so in 2009 a 33-year-old Paul Spicer is looking for work on the open market.

Or - if Spicer can force a fat payday this summer, say a 5-7 MIL bonus on a 3 or 4 year deal, then it almost guarantees he is here for at least 2 more years - possibly three. He can retire on is own terms, on a team he likes, and can bank more bonus by trying to get paid now, while he is the team's most reliable DE.

But I seriously doubt it will work.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

jag4life00 — Thu, 15 May 2008 23:14:19 GMT

[quote][b]amit8700 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]It would sure as h*ll stink to see The Spice Man gone, but its something I won't lose my sleep over. We will be able to move on easily without him.[/quote]

I don't think it would be so easy, we have 2 rookies ( promising but yet rookies remember Mario Williams his first 2 years, blown assiments all over the place)

we have a big time play maker in Reggie H. but he is injured, you got Brian Smith who is still injured. you got Hawkins and Mincey but they are both relief players at BEST.

you take SPice out of the equation and we have a BIG ? at DE AND DT. Remember we are all hoping that the stroud hole can be filled. I think the hole at DT will be "eaiser" to fill than the need at DE.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

amit8700 — Thu, 15 May 2008 23:07:06 GMT

It would sure as h*ll stink to see The Spice Man gone, but its something I won't lose my sleep over. We will be able to move on easily without him.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Jag Fanatic — Thu, 15 May 2008 22:13:01 GMT

I hate to say I told you so......Spicer will be cut.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

cunninghamj — Thu, 15 May 2008 21:20:21 GMT

One player doesnt make a team. Spicer will play with or without a new contact. He will not sit out the year. If he does he forfeits this years salary and I dont know if many teams would touch him next year if he didnt play.

I dont blame him for what he's doing, but I wish he was in camp. It's still ota's and there is still a long time for the season to start. I'm holding out hope for Big Paul.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Jags02 — Thu, 15 May 2008 21:18:07 GMT

The base salary details on Meier's contract are already in. There's no telling what kind of bonus they gave him, but his base salaries are as follows...

2008 - $1 mil
2009 - $1.5 mil
2010 - $2.25 mil
2011 - $2.5 mil
2012 - $2.5 mil

So that's $9.75 mil in base salary alone. Keep your eyes open for any more details.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

shag52 — Thu, 15 May 2008 21:17:27 GMT

[quote][b]JonD (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]shag52 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]"No, he doesn't hold out long term. He has no leverage."

All of that is true. But if the Jags refuse to renegotiate, then Spicer has two options this year: He can play for the Jags or he can retire.[/quote]

Yeah... and the Jags go into the season with a one leg-pass rusher and two rookies... and all of this is after they thought they were on the verge of making noise deep into the play-offs...

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

JonD — Thu, 15 May 2008 20:57:21 GMT

[quote][b]shag52 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]"No, he doesn't hold out long term. He has no leverage."

All of that is true. But if the Jags refuse to renegotiate, then Spicer has two options this year: He can play for the Jags or he can retire.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

shag52 — Thu, 15 May 2008 19:54:30 GMT

"No, he doesn't hold out long term. He has no leverage."

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Bjagfan — Thu, 15 May 2008 19:49:16 GMT

[quote][b]Alfie (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]I'm pretty sure Rosenhouse isn't Byron's agent. I think his agent is Cook or something.[/quote]

Oh yeah, you're right it was that other fool Condon. Drew R. was Stroud, McCray, and QG's agent. Never mind, carry on.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

JaxJag_1 — Thu, 15 May 2008 19:49:09 GMT

[quote][b]Alfie (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Bjagfan (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]cunninghamj (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Bjagfan (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]JAGFANSINCE94 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]

If he tried that, the Jags would call his bluff. he loses, if he sits out.[/quote]

Tell that to his agent Drew R. I don't know why players still employ that fool.[/quote]

Cause he's good. He makes his players alot of money.[/quote]

He's Byron's agent, telling him wherever he goes demand to be the starter, Jamarcus NEEDED camp, holding out at Spicer's age is nonsense. He's a fool!
[size="1"]though, i could be wrong[/size][/quote]

I'm pretty sure Rosenhouse isn't Byron's agent. I think his agent is Cook or something.[/quote]

Byron's agent is Tom Condon

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Alfie — Thu, 15 May 2008 19:40:10 GMT

[quote][b]Bjagfan (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]cunninghamj (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Bjagfan (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]JAGFANSINCE94 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]

If he tried that, the Jags would call his bluff. he loses, if he sits out.[/quote]

Tell that to his agent Drew R. I don't know why players still employ that fool.[/quote]

Cause he's good. He makes his players alot of money.[/quote]

He's Byron's agent, telling him wherever he goes demand to be the starter, Jamarcus NEEDED camp, holding out at Spicer's age is nonsense. He's a fool!
[size="1"]though, i could be wrong[/size][/quote]

I'm pretty sure Rosenhouse isn't Byron's agent. I think his agent is Cook or something.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Bjagfan — Thu, 15 May 2008 19:02:41 GMT

[quote][b]cunninghamj (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Bjagfan (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]JAGFANSINCE94 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]

If he tried that, the Jags would call his bluff. he loses, if he sits out.[/quote]

Tell that to his agent Drew R. I don't know why players still employ that fool.[/quote]

Cause he's good. He makes his players alot of money.[/quote]

He's Byron's agent, telling him wherever he goes demand to be the starter, Jamarcus NEEDED camp, holding out at Spicer's age is nonsense. He's a fool!
[size="1"]though, i could be wrong[/size]

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

cunninghamj — Thu, 15 May 2008 18:59:02 GMT

Cause he's good. He makes his players alot of money.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

Bjagfan — Thu, 15 May 2008 18:50:23 GMT

[quote][b]JAGFANSINCE94 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]

If he tried that, the Jags would call his bluff. he loses, if he sits out.[/quote]

Tell that to his agent Drew R. I don't know why players still employ that fool.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

THE BLUPRINT — Thu, 15 May 2008 17:40:39 GMT

[quote][b]JonD (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]ATLjag (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]JAGFANSINCE94 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]ATLjag (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]I will miss Paul. But, given the new youth investment at DE, he will not receive a large last contract likely to his level of desire. [/quote]

Miss what? He is still a jaguar.[/quote]

He has one year on his present deal. My initial comment was meant more that they will not give him the last big payday that he desires. Does he holdout longterm if he does not get a new deal?[/quote]

No, he doesn't hold out long term. He has no leverage.

The only possible leverage he has is that he could play the retirement card like Strahan did last year. But he's never said anything about wanting to retire and that would seem to confilct with the position of wanting a new long term contract.[/quote]

If he tried that, the Jags would call his bluff. he loses, if he sits out.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

JonD — Thu, 15 May 2008 16:58:23 GMT

[quote][b]ATLjag (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]JAGFANSINCE94 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]ATLjag (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]I will miss Paul. But, given the new youth investment at DE, he will not receive a large last contract likely to his level of desire. [/quote]

Miss what? He is still a jaguar.[/quote]

He has one year on his present deal. My initial comment was meant more that they will not give him the last big payday that he desires. Does he holdout longterm if he does not get a new deal?[/quote]

No, he doesn't hold out long term. He has no leverage.

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

ATLjag — Thu, 15 May 2008 16:51:42 GMT

[quote][b]JAGFANSINCE94 (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]ATLjag (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]I will miss Paul. But, given the new youth investment at DE, he will not receive a large last contract likely to his level of desire. [/quote]

Miss what? He is still a jaguar.[/quote]

He has one year on his present deal. My initial comment was meant more that they will not give him the last big payday that he desires. Does he holdout longterm if he does not get a new deal?

RE: Paul Spicer turns down contract

oface5446 — Thu, 15 May 2008 16:45:02 GMT

no terms yet?