InstantForum.NET v4.1.4jaguars.com Message Boardhttp://mb.jaguars.com/webmaster@jaguars.comMon, 13 Oct 2008 05:21:15 GMT20http://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]Alfie (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]<BR>Taylor would have helped us right now, but Harvey and Groves help us 5 years from now when Jason Taylor is in Hollywood.[/quote]<BR><BR>Jason Taylor should have played Xerxes in the movie 300.Sun, 18 May 2008 01:17:17 GMTJ'villeJagshttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxDrafting anyone not named Vince Young automatically puts us up a notch in the standings.;)Sat, 17 May 2008 21:48:33 GMTUtopiahttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxThis is what has me stoked about Brian Smith getting healthy. He has 31.5 sacks and 43 QB hits in 44 games. Harvey has 20 sacks and 11 QB hits in 36 games. Quentin Groves has 26 sacks and 38 QB hits in 49 games. </P><P>We can have 3 super pass rushers with one in reserve for a long time if Smith completely heals. </P><P>Regards............the ChiefjagSat, 17 May 2008 21:44:12 GMTthe Chiefjaghttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]TheSpacePope (5/17/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Jagwired'd (5/17/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]JacksJags (5/17/2008)[/b][hr]It will take more than a few years of 13 sacks a season to be a first ballot hall of famer.[/quote] Are you kidding me? A few years (3 or more) is on pace of breaking records.[/quote]<BR><BR>And Tony Boselli only allowed two sacks his entire career.. is he going to the HOF? DEs are judged not only by their impact - but how long they were an impact player.[/quote]</P><P><STRONG><FONT color=#119999>Exactly. Being "on pace" to break records means nothing to the Hall of Fame. They care when you actually break the records. They need to know that you left a mark on the game. Boselli did that, and IMO should be in the Hall, but his shortened career will probably prevent that from happening. Maybe one day when the election committee is in a good mood, they'll vote him in.</FONT></STRONG>Sat, 17 May 2008 10:17:49 GMTJags02http://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]Jagwired'd (5/17/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]JacksJags (5/17/2008)[/b][hr]It will take more than a few years of 13 sacks a season to be a first ballot hall of famer.[/quote] Are you kidding me? A few years (3 or more) is on pace of breaking records.[/quote]<br><br>And Tony Boselli only allowed two sacks his entire career.. is he going to the HOF? DEs are judged not only by their impact - but how long they were an impact player.Sat, 17 May 2008 09:21:19 GMTTheSpacePopehttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]JacksJags (5/17/2008)[/b][hr]It will take more than a few years of 13 sacks a season to be a first ballot hall of famer.[/quote] Are you kidding me? A few years (3 or more) is on pace of breaking records.Sat, 17 May 2008 08:45:59 GMTJagwired'dhttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxIt will take more than a few years of 13 sacks a season to be a first ballot hall of famer.Sat, 17 May 2008 08:14:29 GMTJacksJagshttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]piggyback (5/17/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]cunninghamj (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]If he gets 13 sacks a year for a few years I have a feeling you wont hear about it from them ever again.[/quote]<br><br>If he gets 13 sacks a year for a few years, he'll be a first ballot Hall of Famer.[/quote] No doubt. I don't think anyone has done that before.Sat, 17 May 2008 08:12:29 GMTJagwired'dhttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]cunninghamj (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]If he gets 13 sacks a year for a few years I have a feeling you wont hear about it from them ever again.[/quote]</P><P>If he gets 13 sacks a year for a few years, he'll be a first ballot Hall of Famer.Sat, 17 May 2008 07:39:24 GMTpiggybackhttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]the Chiefjag (5/16/2008)[/b][hr]It's all speculation now and the truth will be known after a couple of seasons. What worries me about this trade up is the loss of the draft picks means we are not capable of adding depth on the bench, which we all know to be a requirement to be successful. Maybe the Jags feel the bench is strong enough, I don't know. But the reality is; injuries are going to happen and the bench players are going to be thrown into duty and the better teams are the ones who have better players in reserve.<P>Regards................the Chiefjag[/quote]<P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#119999>When you look at the roster, it's rather deep right now. There are a few positions still lacking depth, but for the most positions you're simply not going to find an upgrade in third or fourth round of the draft.</FONT></STRONG><P><STRONG><FONT color=#119999>What I still love about the deal is the value. The Jaguars gave up two thirds and a fourth. By all rights, and per the charts, to move up those 18 spots the Jaguars should have given up two thirds and a second. Had they given up two thirds and a second, then I'd agree with most of these analysts that the Jaguars made a bad move by reaching with the 8th pick. We'd have still had Harvey, but we'd have a fourth round pick instead of Groves.</FONT></STRONG><P><STRONG><FONT color=#119999>Quite frankly, the deal the Jaguars managed to pull off was nothing short of sheer genius. Not only do I rank it as the single best move of this draft, but as the best move I've ever witnessed in any draft.</FONT></STRONG>Sat, 17 May 2008 03:47:18 GMTJags02http://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxI think most people had a feeling they'd trade up because of all the picks they had accumulated. I think the real question is was Harvey worth it? That's something only time will tell and I agree it has more to do about the players they could have added than it does about Harvey and his skills.</P><P>I think the Jags found themselves in pretty good shape after pre-draft free agency signings and decided they didn't need the picks so they were going to trade up for a player they thought could add the most value, and that was Harvey.</P><P>Some people will question the worthiness of it since they could have gotten other DE's first round and gotten guys in the 3rd and fourth rounds and assigned them to practice squad and I think that's a legitimate view since they really are not out of the free agency "dog house" yet, but in reality they only lost like 2 picks in the draft after trading up? That ain't too bad.Sat, 17 May 2008 00:05:16 GMTThe Lord of Orangehttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxIt's all speculation now and the truth will be known after a couple of seasons. What worries me about this trade up is the loss of the draft picks means we are not capable of adding depth on the bench, which we all know to be a requirement to be successful. Maybe the Jags feel the bench is strong enough, I don't know. But the reality is; injuries are going to happen and the bench players are going to be thrown into duty and the better teams are the ones who have better players in reserve.</P><P>Regards................the ChiefjagFri, 16 May 2008 22:10:52 GMTthe Chiefjaghttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxLet them talk, our DE situation was bad prior to the draft, Hayward cant stay healthy, McCray left and was inconsistent, and Spicer is getting old, we needed young and talented added at this position and we got it, adding a dumbass like Allen who will probably get in trouble again would have been a mistake, just like adding an aging Jason Taylor. These guys are so desperate for numbers to place in a cheezy sports column. Im not even going to sweat it.Fri, 16 May 2008 13:07:38 GMTCaldrachttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]HURRICANE!!! (5/16/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]jackinblack (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]What about making Faneca the highest paid O-lineman in the league?[/quote]<P><FONT color=#33dddd>How do you think Willie Parker gets all his yards? Willie P is an undrafted Free Agent. Hmmmm..... maybe it's the fact that he was running behind Faneca and Hartings (2006).</FONT>[/quote]<P>Where did I state that Faneca couldn't play? The fact is Faneca is a GUARD and makes more than any LT in the league. On top of that, he's not necessarily a spring chicken anymore. <P>Do you really think he's worth the money? And for a team that's rebuilding?Fri, 16 May 2008 13:04:02 GMTjackinblackhttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]BigBanshee (5/16/2008)[/b][hr]This draft class was generally regarded as being weak, maybe mediocre at best; so the 'cost' of giving up multiple mid-round picks this year was far less than it would be in a stronger class.[/quote]<br><br>Also, the expected cost to trade up into the top twenty should have been expected to be [b]higher[/b] than normal, not lower.Fri, 16 May 2008 12:07:02 GMTiapetushttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxThis draft class was generally regarded as being weak, maybe mediocre at best; so the 'cost' of giving up multiple mid-round picks this year was far less than it would be in a stronger class. <br><br>Fri, 16 May 2008 11:36:41 GMTBigBansheehttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]TecmoSuperBowl (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]What were their numbers 1-3?<BR><BR>Signing Garrard long term<BR>Picking up Jerry Porter <BR>Trading Stoud<BR><BR><BR>Yahoo are Jaguar haters.[/quote]</P><P><FONT color=#33dddd>Great Post !!!</FONT>Fri, 16 May 2008 09:15:55 GMTHURRICANE!!!http://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]jackinblack (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]What about making Faneca the highest paid O-lineman in the league?[/quote]</P><P><FONT color=#33dddd>How do you think Willie Parker gets all his yards? Willie P is an undrafted Free Agent. Hmmmm..... maybe it's the fact that he was running behind Faneca and Hartings (2006).</FONT>Fri, 16 May 2008 09:15:13 GMTHURRICANE!!!http://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxIf we can look back at this draft in 4 years and say that we have bookend DE's, and <EM>everyone else from this class is gone</EM>, I'll be happy.</P><P>A two player draft is no great shakes, and I would much much rather have 4-5 quality players, but the potential in the top two picks of this class is astounding. I might even debate that Kansas City's haul of Branden Albert and Glenn Dorsey doesn't have as much potential <EM>at impacting a game </EM>as Harvey and Groves. It took us two drafts to get Stroud and Henderson, and back to back 6-10 seasons, and of the <EM>nineteen players </EM>form those two classes, six of them are still on active rosters. </P><P>We might have duplicated those two drafts with one class, and that after an 11-5 season. And we <EM>still</EM> have next years #1!Fri, 16 May 2008 08:45:19 GMTChoochhttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx<FONT size=3>Any time a team gives up three players for one player, most people are going to say that the team that got three players got the better deal of the transaction. Well, in the case of the Jags, this draft was not so much about quantity as it was about quality. The Jags desperately needed impact pass-rush DEs out of this draft and from pretty much all reports they came away with the No. 3 and the No. 4 Pass Rush DEs in this draft. Given the value that is placed on the acquisition of quality pass rush DE's, more times than not quality DE's are going to be overdrafted. This happened with the Texans with Mario Williams and in most drafts where the high quality DEs are off the board by the middle of Rd 1 whether they deserve to be selected that high or not.</FONT></P><P><FONT size=3>So with such high value placed on DEs, how is it that the Jags were able to STEAL Quentin Groves in the middle of Rd 2? Perhaps the Jags are just smarter than your average Bear, and all the dummies out there saying that three average bears are better than one extraordinary bear are just full of honey and vinegar. </FONT></P><P><FONT size=3>Bottom line is that the Jags got what they wanted and what they needed and in this world that rarely happens. When it does happen it is cause for celebration, but only by those that realize how truly rare such an occurance is.</FONT>Fri, 16 May 2008 07:57:47 GMTStigmahttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]Jags02 (5/16/2008)[/b][hr]The argument I keep trying to make is that these guys would be praising the move if the Jaguars waited a little while longer and then moved up to the #14 spot to grab Harvey. What they fail to see is that had they waited, they probably would have had to give up the same exact picks.[/quote]<br><br>Except, of course, that moving up to 14 would most likely not have been an option, and Harvey wouldn't have been available by that point, most likely. Having decided to go for Harvey, the Jags made the move at the right time, and got good value in their trade.Fri, 16 May 2008 06:03:11 GMTiapetushttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx<FONT color=#119999><STRONG>I have to think that anyone who is bashing the move for Harvey is doing so because they don't quite understand how much value the Jaguars gained in the deal. All they see is that the Jaguars traded up to #8 and then reached at that spot for Harvey when there a couple of the "elite" players </STRONG>(Rivers, McKelvin and Clady) <STRONG>still available. The argument I keep trying to make is that these guys would be praising the move if the Jaguars waited a little while longer and then moved up to the #14 spot to grab Harvey. What they fail to see is that had they waited, they probably would have had to give up the same exact picks. By taking him with the earlier pick for the same compensation, they guaranteed they got the guy they wanted.</STRONG></FONT></P><P><STRONG><FONT color=#119999>That's another thing these grading sites fail to pick up on. That is, the Jaguars really wanted Harvey because among the players available he provided the most potential to help the Jaguars immediately.</FONT></STRONG>Fri, 16 May 2008 03:22:25 GMTJags02http://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]PF* (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]We gave up 2 thirds and a fourth to get the exact player we wanted. One of the thirds came to us for Alvin Pearman so we gave up our 3rd and 4th round picks plus a guy we didn't want. Would the 4th rounder have even made our team?<P>We gave our new, aggressive defensive coordinator two guys who will give him all kinds of options to attack opposing quarterbacks. What's not to like?[/quote]<P>Actually, we didn't get a 3rd for Pearman. We got a 5th for Pearman and a 7th. One of the two 3rds we used to deal up to get Harvey came from Buffalo in the Stroud trade. <P>But your larger point stands.Fri, 16 May 2008 00:13:17 GMTBullseyehttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxthe move was risky, but not nearly as risky, as some of the other moves we have made in the past.</P><P>like someone already said its shock and awe on the yahoo side........besides who reads yahoo anymore?Thu, 15 May 2008 23:17:19 GMTjag4life00http://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxFor some reason, PFT took up for the former demoted Bent Hubcap when he reported after the Saints miracle 5 years ago that Musgrave was going to get canned after that game.</P><P>He went on a tirade against Del Rio, calling him names, etc.</P><P>Ever since then, he's gone as far as to report the Del Rio uses too much water, is an for _________________(fill in the blank) etc.</P><P>He can stick it, because when we continue to win, it will be that much sweeter.</P><P>The guy is such a Homer-type that he has lost all real credibility.</P><P>Minutes after Owen Schmidt's TD run in the bowl game, he posted that he should be a 1st Round pick because of his "Pure love of the game".</P><P>Nice suggestion, Florio. He was a 5th rounder, if I recall.Thu, 15 May 2008 22:11:42 GMTnatehttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxThat is by Mike Florio of profootballtalk.com though,Thu, 15 May 2008 20:29:43 GMTJacksJagshttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]Alfie (5/15/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]jagutopia (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]When have the Jags EVER been in a positive light with the national media. Screw the national media.[/quote]<BR><BR>Foxsports always seems to like us:<BR><BR><A href="http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8138500/Five-teams-that-have-made-Super-improvements">http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8138500/Five-teams-that-have-made-Super-improvements</A> [/quote]</P><P>True. I'm just in a nasty mood tonight.:cursing:Thu, 15 May 2008 20:14:54 GMTUtopiahttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxWe gave up 2 thirds and a fourth to get the exact player we wanted. One of the thirds came to us for Alvin Pearman so we gave up our 3rd and 4th round picks plus a guy we didn't want. Would the 4th rounder have even made our team?</P><P>We gave our new, aggressive defensive coordinator two guys who will give him all kinds of options to attack opposing quarterbacks. What's not to like?Thu, 15 May 2008 20:09:58 GMTPF*http://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]jagutopia (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]When have the Jags EVER been in a positive light with the national media. Screw the national media.[/quote]<BR><BR>Foxsports always seems to like us:<BR><BR><A href="http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8138500/Five-teams-that-have-made-Super-improvements">http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8138500/Five-teams-that-have-made-Super-improvements</A>Thu, 15 May 2008 19:56:18 GMTAlfiehttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxWhen have the Jags EVER been in a positive light with the national media. Screw the national media.Thu, 15 May 2008 19:51:47 GMTUtopiahttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxA lot of the national media are upset because the Jaguars gave them blue balls with the Jason Taylor trade. They all were poised for us to make the move, and then we came out of left field and ripped off the Ravens to move up 18 spots and took Harvey, which [b]no one expected[/b]. Everyone thought Taylor was a sure thing and now all they're going to do is harp on the fact that we didn't do that and made the better move, more intelligent move.<BR><BR>Taylor would have helped us right now, but Harvey and Groves help us 5 years from now when Jason Taylor is in Hollywood.Thu, 15 May 2008 19:35:58 GMTAlfiehttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxIt's not Yahoo Sports, it's PFT, specifically it's "lead journalist" that has a very open and apparent grudge against the Jags franchise.</P><P>Who cares, as Vic very poignantly discussed in his column today, ANYONE can be a "journalist" in this day &amp; age. Take opinions for what they're worth and use your eyes &amp; ears on the field to tell you whats good or not.Thu, 15 May 2008 18:33:36 GMTJagsFanJon2http://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxYAHOO SPORTS<br>------------------<br><br>Originally<br><br>Winner<br>http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=dw-winnerslosers042608&prov=yhoo&type=lgns<br><br><br>Loser <br>http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=packtheworstmovesandnonm&prov=tsn&type=lgns<br><br><br>Make up your mind YahooThu, 15 May 2008 18:24:12 GMTJo Gagshttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxopinions are like buttholesThu, 15 May 2008 15:03:49 GMTJaxFlJonhttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxWhat were their numbers 1-3?<br><br>Signing Garrard long term<br>Picking up Jerry Porter <br>Trading Stoud<br><br><br>Yahoo are Jaguar haters.Thu, 15 May 2008 14:59:52 GMTTecmoSuperBowlhttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx[quote][b]Bullseye (5/15/2008)[/b][hr]Keep in mind, the same who compiled this list runs PFT.<P>Had Jacksonville made the deal for Allen and he gets another DUI, would he laud the Jaguars for getting the proven commodity?</P><P>No.</P><P>He'd trash the Jaguars for getting the "proven turd," and wonder why NFL teams continue to add guys with allegedly questionable character. </P><P>As another ably pointed out earlier in this thread, if Harvey notches double digit sacks, we won't hear a peep outta Florio about the shrewdness of the move or offer any mea culpas. He'd avoid the subject like the plague while continuing with this "throw it against the wall and see what sticks" pseudo analysis. [/quote]<P>I used to enjoy PFT, but not quite as much anymore. A couple years ago he would put a story out there that may or may not be true and be on the cutting edge. Now PFT is scared to ever be wrong. It originally started out as a rumor blog. Now its turned into an NFL information blog. There is nothing cutting edge anymore.<P>He used to bash on "real" media types and now he is one of them. I know he has inside sources with quite a few teams, but the site seems to have taken a step back.Thu, 15 May 2008 14:44:21 GMTcunninghamjhttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxKeep in mind, the same who compiled this list runs PFT.</P><P>Had Jacksonville made the deal for Allen and he gets another DUI, would he laud the Jaguars for getting the proven commodity?</P><P>No.</P><P>He'd trash the Jaguars for getting the "proven turd," and wonder why NFL teams continue to add guys with allegedly questionable character. </P><P>As another ably pointed out earlier in this thread, if Harvey notches double digit sacks, we won't hear a peep outta Florio about the shrewdness of the move or offer any mea culpas. He'd avoid the subject like the plague while continuing with this "throw it against the wall and see what sticks" pseudo analysis. Thu, 15 May 2008 14:30:59 GMTBullseyehttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspx2nd worst move of the offseason was reading Yahoo Sports...Thu, 15 May 2008 14:27:43 GMTiapetushttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxWhat about making Faneca the highest paid O-lineman in the league?Thu, 15 May 2008 14:09:46 GMTjackinblackhttp://mb.jaguars.com/Topic525206-6-1.aspxI actually signed on to post this article and then noticed it had already been posted.</P><P>Why don't people understand that we didn't "give up" a first round pick. We swapped ours for a HIGHER one. We "gave up" 2 thirds and a fourth. Based on the same points system that he mentions when he talks about Baltimore, we made out pretty well in the deal.</P><P>I'm so sick of hearing about freakin Allen, I hope we shut him down when the Vikes come to Jax.Thu, 15 May 2008 14:05:02 GMTTYJax