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RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

Project_2501 — Thu, 01 May 2008 01:36:22 GMT

[quote][b]TheSpacePope (4/30/2008)[/b][hr]

Kiper is just a douche who wouldn't say any of the crap he does to an actual players face.. well.. I'm sure Akili Smith likes him. haha. And Ryan Leaf.. more talent than Peyton.. I don't care that he as an attitude problem.. if he were a quarter as talented as Peyton he'd still be playing somewhere in the NFL.
[/quote]

Do you not think guys like RJ Soward or Micheal Vick have talent? What about the "possibly pulling his career around" Pacman? Do you think Walter Payton was more talented than other RBs of his time? There is more to it than talent. ESPECIALLY when you're talking about QBs.

I'm sure Kiper has had some big misses, but come on. After a few decades you're bound to get some.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

Tigeras — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:26:49 GMT

I don't get the NFL network either, however, during the draft, if you went to NFL.com's site (which I did) they had a live streaming to watch (which I did).

As for Keyshawn being on the 'panel'... what's funny was he seemed to pick the right position for the upcoming team (maybe not the right player) more than Kiper did. :D

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

TheSpacePope — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:10:08 GMT

[quote][b]Su héroe (4/30/2008)[/b][hr]I was flipping back and forth between the two, but found myself staying on ESPN more than the NFL Network.

Scefter vs. Mortenson - advantage ESPN
Schefter is a tool. I'll takeMortensen and Clayton anyday over him

Kiper vs. Mayock - Push
Although I think Mayock was a lot closer on his picks and anylisis than Kiper, I just thought he was too possitive on every pick. I don't mind Kiper telling it how it is sometimes.

Chris Berman vs. Rich Eisen - Push
I can only take so much of either of those guys.

ESPN vs NFL net production - advantage NFL net
I just thought they were cleaner, less background noise, and had cameras everywhere. They also seemed to have exclusive interview rights.

I guess it's a push for me. I'll probablt do the same thing again next year and wach them both.[/quote]

Woah, woah.. Eisen is a helluva lot better than Berman and his "ya, but" crap. It's old, man. And you suck at everything you try to do, Chris.. just thought you should know... you're not the main attraction.. no one cares about your opinion.

Kiper is just a douche who wouldn't say any of the crap he does to an actual players face.. well.. I'm sure Akili Smith likes him. haha. And Ryan Leaf.. more talent than Peyton.. I don't care that he as an attitude problem.. if he were a quarter as talented as Peyton he'd still be playing somewhere in the NFL.

ESPN only cares about the Cowboys and Patriots.. the NFLN actually realizes there are 30 other teams.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

KingIngram052787 — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:01:23 GMT

[quote][b]Big John (4/28/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Alfie (4/28/2008)[/b][hr]I like ESPN's graphics structure. I like NFLN's talking heads.[/quote]

I agree. I remember flipping to NFLnet on the second day and waiting for a pick and couldn't find what the heck happened. Then I switched back to ESPN.

ESPN needs to keep Trey Wingo on both days and then get rid of Steve Young and Keyshawn. There is no reason why those two should be talking about the draft. Young should be let go period. The only people talking should be Mel, McShay, Mort and Jaws. Anyone else doesn't deserve the face time.[/quote]

:yeahthat:

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

Utopia — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:01:57 GMT

I don't get NFL Network:w00t:, so I can't compare the two, but from ESPN, Jaworski is great. He knows his stuff. Berman and Kiper could get flushed, and I wouldn't lose any sleep at all. It would probably make the whole thing better. Jaws reminds me of Lageman on gameday. Lageman always says something that I never would have thought of and I always learn something new when I hear him.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

Su héroe — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:37:16 GMT

I was flipping back and forth between the two, but found myself staying on ESPN more than the NFL Network.

Scefter vs. Mortenson - advantage ESPN
Schefter is a tool. I'll take Mortensen and Clayton anyday over him

Kiper vs. Mayock - Push
Although I think Mayock was a lot closer on his picks and anylisis than Kiper, I just thought he was too possitive on every pick. I don't mind Kiper telling it how it is sometimes.

Chris Berman vs. Rich Eisen - Push
I can only take so much of either of those guys.

ESPN vs NFL net production - advantage NFL net
I just thought they were cleaner, less background noise, and had cameras everywhere. They also seemed to have exclusive interview rights.

I guess it's a push for me. I'll probablt do the same thing again next year and wach them both.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

zackattack99 — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:20:32 GMT

This year was the first year I had NFL Network. I have to say that I was really impressed with Mayock. He really knows his stuff. The NFL Network has better people and it was actually entertaining to listen to them. The one problem I had was sometimes it was hard to keep up with picks in the later rounds and I found myself flipping back to ESPN to find out who the Jaguars picked but that was it. The NFL Network was still more informative and they did a great job on the draft.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

jj82284 — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:44:49 GMT

[quote][b]rfc17 (4/28/2008)[/b][hr]And dont get me started on when they would cut away from the main analysts and go back to the "studio". NFL Network had Charlie Casserly who was an actual GM and scout talking about the draft. ESPN had the knucklehead PTI intern.[/quote]

that made no sense. i agree. some of those people were basketball guys. that girl on the right was just dead. the one thing they did have was that really knowledgable physical therapists who understood how every football movement impacts every joint and every potential injury or soft tissue issue and how that would impact a player. she was great.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

Bullseye — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:33:07 GMT

I have been watching the NFL draft coverage since 1983.

Back during those days, the draft was 12 rounds, on Tuesdays, and ESPN only covered the first round or so.

I was a teenager then, and used to skip school to watch the draft.

It's as if I grew up watching ESPN's coverage.

This year was the first time I've watched NFL Network's coverage.

Without question, NFL Network's coverage was superior, even though I am not as accustomed to the talking heads there.

First, there is far more substance to the NFL Network coverage. Mayock usually went steps further in his analysis than Kiper typically does in his. Mayock went into specific technique discussion and showed how bad technique (i.e. hand placement, hip turns/flipping) led to bad results for the player. Usually, to get that level of analysis in ESPN's coverage, they'd have to switch to Jaws. This led to a more efficient broadcast. The NFL N highlights showed bad plays for a player, too. ESPN has, recently, added a lot of fluff pieces to their coverage to pass time. NFL Network avoided that and generally stuck to the picks and the teams on the clock, with only the occasional interview with a coach or player.

Secondly (and I know this will irritate some), but the anti small market bias that seemingly has become an unfortunate trademark of ESPN's coverage was notably absent from NFL Network's coverage. One of the reasons I tried NFL Network's coverage this year is because I got sick of ESPN cutting to commercial or some interview of Jerry Jones every time the Jaguars were on the clock. I got sick of all the "yeah but" jokes when the Jaguars finally did make the pick. Watching NFL Network's even handed coverage of all the teams was refreshing.

NFL Network did have its share of problems. The shorts in the microphones early on were particularly annoying. And from what I can recall, I don't remember the NFL Network crew trashing any pick (Aside from jamie Dukes criticising the Pats for the QB in round 3).

Furthermore, it was kind of odd listening to someone other than the ESPN crew on draft day.

But if substantive draft coverage is the ideal, NFL Network is the better choice.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

Chooch — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:19:59 GMT

I didn't get to catch NFLN, but there were some things that I liked and some that I really didn't like about ESPN's coverage.

Pro's:

Kiper - I know that a lot of people are down on him for his antics over the years, but I think that he has really toned down the whole "in your face attitude" that was so prevalent in years past. He was actively trying to include the other memebers of the team, and there wasn't a name that rolled around that he hadn't done his homework on.

Case in point, when Tennessee rolled that small school guy out from nowhere, the NFL Draft board didn't even have him listed. In fact, they questioned whether he was a real guy. Kiper immediately started giving stats, strengths and weaknesses on the guy. Yeah it's his job, but he is always prepared to do his job.

The NCAA vs. NFL Booth - I don't think that they pulled it off right because they had Herbstreit on there and I really just want him to go away. However, I like the idea that they have guy who has knowledge of how a guy has played in the NCAA (Herbstreit) and then compare that to how he is going to have to play on Sundays (Jaworski).

Wingo - I don't know why, I just like the guy. I think he brings a lot of energy to the booth, and he keeps it light. He isn't over the top serious about it.

Con's:

Too many people - Dear God,they had six people in the booth on both days! How many opinions do I need to hear? I like the idea of three (four at the most), people in the booth, and you can rotate by round if you want to keep it fresh. Have your Draft Guru there with the host, a former player/coach, and maybe even a fourth for opinion, and have a guy on remote working the phones. It was just too many people there.

Timing - I think that the new time limits really caught them off guard, at least I hope that's what that was. It seemed like they were talking over the top of the picks and that they felt that their opinions were more important than what was actually happened. When I watch the draft, I want to know about the players.

Too much 'stuff' going on - I understand that they are trying to turn into the 'Oprah' of sports, but the studio time was just lame. No way in h-e-double hockey sticks does Reali deserve to host anything besides a drag party. I just want to watch the draft, not listen to 4 journalists that I've never heard of get insulted and prodded by Reali. Yuck.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

Big John — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:59:20 GMT

[quote][b]Alfie (4/28/2008)[/b][hr]I like ESPN's graphics structure. I like NFLN's talking heads.[/quote]

I agree. I remember flipping to NFLnet on the second day and waiting for a pick and couldn't find what the heck happened. Then I switched back to ESPN.

ESPN needs to keep Trey Wingo on both days and then get rid of Steve Young and Keyshawn. There is no reason why those two should be talking about the draft. Young should be let go period. The only people talking should be Mel, McShay, Mort and Jaws. Anyone else doesn't deserve the face time.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

Alfie — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:07:36 GMT

I like ESPN's graphics structure. I like NFLN's talking heads.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

Stigma — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:01:28 GMT

I will confess that when a commercial came up I switched channels, so I guess I watched both. I prefer NFLN, but on the second day, the bottomline on ESPN was nice to keep up with who was being picked.

As far as analyst's are concerned, I really don't listen to any of them because they all have their own perspective and I have mine.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

rfc17 — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:58:43 GMT

And dont get me started on when they would cut away from the main analysts and go back to the "studio". NFL Network had Charlie Casserly who was an actual GM and scout talking about the draft. ESPN had the knucklehead PTI intern.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

6 Joe Six-Pack 6 — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:56:04 GMT

NFLN

I have a lot of respect for Mayock. The guy does his homework.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

Larry — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:43:35 GMT

NFLN = all substance.
ESPN = fluff.

It isn't even a Kiper/Mayock debate at all...Kiper doesn't stand a chance on ESPN because of the direction ESPN goes with everything. Talking heads arguing over sports topics they really have no knowledge of.

NFLN kept it simple, stupid. Football guys talking about football.

Simple, neat, tidy, effective.

ESPN used to do that, but over the course of time, they've changed.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

Teal 'n Black — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:37:19 GMT

NFL Network was by far superior. Mayock is just as knowledgable as Kiper regarding the prospects, but he actually knows what each team needs to get to the next level as well. He also had a good idea on what players teams were looking to take in specific areas. Not to mention Rich Eisen is a significantly better host than Berman...Berman's act is just old.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

JacksJags — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:34:57 GMT

Also, Michael Irvin is pathetic.

Cris Carter on Day two should have been the guy there on day one for Irvin.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

JacksJags — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:34:10 GMT

[quote][b]rfc17 (4/28/2008)[/b][hr]So which coverage did you like better? I have to admit I found myself watching NFL Network far more often. I guess Im getting tired of Berman's antics. Kiper knows who all these guys are but he is just awful at what a team needs and how a player would fit in that team's scheme. Frankly Jaws is the only reason to watch but his opinion seems to get lost amidst all the other nonsense.

Mayock who has basically become the NFLN's version of Kiper knows all the players but he actually knows how theyd fit for each team. I didnt really like Deion but he was only there the first day. and didnt he leave after the first round? I feel like youve got more analysts who actually played football and know what they are talking about. With ESPN Berman, Kiper, and Mort dont REALLY know anything.[/quote]

I agree, Jaws is very good.

RE: ESPN vs NFL Network

JacksJags — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:33:53 GMT

Kiper is a . He spends all this time on the draft. That is all he does, and more often than not he has no clue what is going on

ESPN vs NFL Network

rfc17 — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:31:55 GMT

So which coverage did you like better? I have to admit I found myself watching NFL Network far more often. I guess Im getting tired of Berman's antics. Kiper knows who all these guys are but he is just awful at what a team needs and how a player would fit in that team's scheme. Frankly Jaws is the only reason to watch but his opinion seems to get lost amidst all the other nonsense.