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RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

Omg Its Leftwich — Mon, 12 May 2008 21:13:57 GMT

[quote][b]jagutopia (5/12/2008)[/b][hr]I wasn't reviving the thread to take shots at anyone. It was just interesting to read what everyone had to say prior to the draft, and now after. This pick reminds me a bit of Brackens, a guy who wasn't supposed to be available at the Jags pick in the second round. I remember the whole "Kevin Hardy vs. Simeon Rice" debate during that draft. We got Hardy, then Brackens in the second, which worked out nicely for the defense that year. Hopefully history will repeat itself.[/quote]

They are scrubs compared to Eric Wilbur.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

jagutopia — Mon, 12 May 2008 19:14:30 GMT

I wasn't reviving the thread to take shots at anyone. It was just interesting to read what everyone had to say prior to the draft, and now after. This pick reminds me a bit of Brackens, a guy who wasn't supposed to be available at the Jags pick in the second round. I remember the whole "Kevin Hardy vs. Simeon Rice" debate during that draft. We got Hardy, then Brackens in the second, which worked out nicely for the defense that year. Hopefully history will repeat itself.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

Krayz_Jville_D — Mon, 12 May 2008 17:38:55 GMT

groves is 6'3 259 and will probly add some weight... there is NO REASON at all that he cant be the every down RDE pass rusher... harvery is perfect for the LDE where he can stop the run and rush the passer... groves and harvey are both fast, and big enough to play every down.. i dont get why people think a DE has to be 280+ to stop the run.. absolutely not true

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

Big Cat Country — Mon, 12 May 2008 16:46:22 GMT

While I was OK with the idea of the Jaguars taking Groves at 26 as their first round pick, my excitement level goes up exponentially when I consider him as a 2nd round pick with Harvey as the first.

There was simply no way to foreshadow that the Jaguars would find a way to get Derrick Harvey. At the very worst I saw him going no further than 17/18. I did have a funny feeling on draft day that the first round would be a muddled mess based on what Atlanta decided, but I was stunned when I realized that the Jaguars had traded to the 8 spot.

Quentin Groves, even by my own preview, has to be re-evaluated in light of the new situation. He would have been a poor fit on the Jaguars defense as the "one shot" solution to the pass-rush, but teamed with Harvey allows Groves to flourish as Gregg Williams "go to" pass-rush guy, rather than a player who's expected to quickly develop into a three downs DE.

Still, I'm pretty pleased with that prospect preview. It's the only one I wrote that the Jaguars actually selected. Jason Jones went to the Titans, he's a guy I had pegged for the 3rd/4th round. Go figure...

-Chris

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

b0ndsj0ns — Mon, 12 May 2008 00:50:00 GMT

[quote][b]Jags02 (5/11/2008)[/b][hr]When I made the above replies, I was talking about him being the only DE taken as the #26 pick. I didn't care for that, but I love him as a late 2nd round pick having already selected Harvey.[/quote]

That was pretty much my opinion of him. I thought he would have been a reach at 26, but at 52 he is a steal. He may only be a DPR this season, but I think he is a lot better than the other DPR's we have right now. Really happy getting him in round 2.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

Jags02 — Sun, 11 May 2008 02:06:49 GMT

When I made the above replies, I was talking about him being the only DE taken as the #26 pick. I didn't care for that, but I love him as a late 2nd round pick having already selected Harvey.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

jagutopia — Sat, 10 May 2008 19:19:47 GMT

:Whistling:

Thought this would make for some nice post-draft discussion.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

Jags02 — Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:06:26 GMT

I still don't think Groves is ideal for this team. I understand the "size" argument in that there have been several successful DEs his size. With that said, I'd argue that such players are still the exception to the rule. Moreover, Groves is already considered "soft" as an OLB, so I just don't see him cutting it as a DE except in passing only situations. Frankly I just don't believe he'd be all that different than the likes of Brent Hawkins, Brian Smith and Kenny Pettway. He's a tad bigger and a tad faster than these guys, but he's basically the same type of player.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

Jags02 — Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:59:49 GMT

[quote][b]Su héroe (4/17/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]Big Cat Country (4/17/2008)[/b][hr]I've just finished another prospect preview at [url=http://www.bigcatcountry.com]Big Cat Country[/url]. This time the subject (by request) is [url=http://www.bigcatcountry.com/story/2008/4/16/173757/799]Auburn Defensive End/Outside Linebacker Quentin Groves[/url].

The interesting part is trying to figure out if he's a reach for the Jaguars at 26 because of his "better fit" in a 3-4 defense. A defensive coordinator that I work with did a little break down of how Grove might fit in the Jaguars defense.

I also did a little research on the "heart surgery" that Groves underwent. He suffered from what's called Wolff-Parkinson-White (WPW) syndrome. What that means is that the electrical system of the heart had an extra electrical pathway. The procedure is to remove a small bundle of nerves around the heart that cause it to develop a rapid or irregular heartbeat. The procedure is 95% successful and patients that have the procedure (called adiofrequency catheter ablation}, are considered cured and without side effects.

While this might cause his "stock to drop", it should have no bearing on his ability to play in the NFL.

Personally, I'm intrigued on what a player like Groves could bring to the team. He's a guided missile aimed at a quarterback every down he's on the field. The question is, can he be on the field for three or four downs? Can he stop the NFL run game?

-Chris[/quote]

Everything I have heard is that he is not a 3-4 OLB. Prisco had a guy on last week that said teams have worked him out at LB and he was horrible. They concluded that he is a stand-up DE only.

The other thing scouts and coaches are looking at is his toughness.He has got the lable of being a little soft. That and the heart surgery has scared teams a bit and dropped him out of the 1st round.[/quote]

If you visit a 49ers site or two you'll realize that this is not at all what they're saying. They've been working out Groves, and absolutely love him as a 3-4 OLB. I'm now convinced they'll take him with their first pick unless another team takes him first.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

Warjag — Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:16:36 GMT

I know alot about Mr. Grooves. I am an Auburn fan. If you are Gator you sure as heck no who he is. He played alot even in his freshman year when we went undefeated. Came in on 3rd down plays.

The next 2 years he was a terror. He did not come out after his Junior year to much delight to us Auburn faithful.He started the season out with 2 sacks and was only one away to become AU alltime sack leader. Then the 3 dislocated toes.

He has added weight to get to 259. He played mainly at 245lbs. He played outside LB the last 5 games to not much fan fare. The man that took his spot(Coleman) was just a terror himself.

In short he is a man that needs to be motivated to play. When he is he will take over a game. Did anyone see the Al/AU game 3 years ago! 4 ....count them 4 sacks against B. Croyle.

We already have a guy like him in B. Smith. Remember?

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

rfc17 — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:52:15 GMT

[quote][b]Big John (4/19/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]JagsFanJayS (4/18/2008)[/b][hr]Groves does not fit with this team. He is too small to be an every down DE in the NFL. If we do sign him, then that tells me we either have a ic coaching staff or it is a sign we are definitely switching to a 3-4 defense. Groves could be a beast as a 3-4 pass rushing OLB, but he needs that system.[/quote]

Auburn tried a 3-4 last year with Groves coming off the edge. You know what? It didn't work. He couldn't cover and he was worse as a pass rusher. He's a 4-3 end.[/quote]

I thought the problem was when he got hurt early last year, his replacement turned out to be a great player. so when Groves was healthy, they had him play OLB in a 4-3. and he really struggled in that situation.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

ytraM — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:39:29 GMT

Everything I have heard is that he is not a 3-4 OLB. Prisco had a guy on last week that said teams have worked him out at LB and he was horrible. They concluded that he is a stand-up DE only.

Prisco does not like the guy at all. Every time he talks about him, he is very negative. Bad attitude, soft, etc.

On the other hand, Prisco didn't like David Garrard at all, either.

I like Pete Prisco. However, we all have to admit, he is one of those guys that can be described as "Often wrong, never in doubt."

Jack Del Rio knows a lot more about player evaluation than Pete Prisco does. That is for sure.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

Big John — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:09:08 GMT

[quote][b]JagsFanJayS (4/18/2008)[/b][hr]Groves does not fit with this team. He is too small to be an every down DE in the NFL. If we do sign him, then that tells me we either have a ic coaching staff or it is a sign we are definitely switching to a 3-4 defense. Groves could be a beast as a 3-4 pass rushing OLB, but he needs that system.[/quote]

Auburn tried a 3-4 last year with Groves coming off the edge. You know what? It didn't work. He couldn't cover and he was worse as a pass rusher. He's a 4-3 end.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

Big Cat Country — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:36:39 GMT

Krayz: The Suggs example is pretty good. Groves, according to someone who knows far more about football personnel than I, brings two things to the table for the Jaguars.

1. Pass Rush: He's fast, we know Jack and Shack get a little crazy about speed (Matt Jones).

2. Zone Blitz: Because he can cover as an OLB, we could see exotic things like Groves dropping into coverage and Justin Durant (also very fast) blitzing.

Now, Groves is not going to be the best run stuffer in the history of defensive ends, but that's not really what we'd be drafting him for. Rather, he'd be a very good pass rusher that needs extra help in the run game. A small price to pay for a boost to our pass-rush.

JagsFanJayS: You're right, he'd be BEST in a 3-4, but he'd do just fine in our system. It's not his best fit, but he's still a good player. Jack and Gregg would find a way to make him work. rfc17 and Maize make good points about why his size isn't too much of a concern. Just imagine what an NFL level strength and conditioning program will do for him?

The subject of his Heart Surgery might be good for the Jaguars, it only took three minutes of research to figure out that if the procedure is successful the patient is considered "cured". They don't even open up his chest. It's a catheter inserted into the leg that's worked up into the heart.

Some of the media folks are making it sound like he had a quintuple bypass or something, this is hardly the case.

Now, something to think about is the consequences of a Jared Allen trade to the Vikings. The general consensus seems to be that Phillip Merling would go to the Vikes at 17. If the Chiefs get the 17th pick, you might see Merling slip back a bit, to say Tennessee. Quentin Groves is the next "first round" graded DE, if Jacksonville decides to go that route.

-Chris

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

Krayz_Jville_D — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:11:47 GMT

quentin groves = terrell suggs

im so confused how everyone cries that we need pass rushers, then when they are avialable all the sudden they arent every down guys, or cant play the run, or this and that... WE WANT PASS RUSHERS... look at ALL THE SACK LEADERS year after year, i bet there average weight is around 260-265.... that is perfectly fine weight to play every down in a pass happy league

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

ATLjag — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:06:06 GMT

Mincey is 6'3 260 and Wyche is 6'5 262...I don't think Groves being 6'3 260 is unusual for a pro DE in a 4-3. Also, he did pump out 30 reps at the combine, and he has the frame to add more 'beef' effectively, if desired. Unfortunately, I have not seen him play enough to comment on the 'soft label'.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

rfc17 — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:57:32 GMT

Umenyiora is listed at 260. Strahan 255. Jason Taylor 255. Dumervil 260. Andre Carter 250. Ogunleye 260. Burgess 260.

Ideally youd like a guy to be at least 270, but looking at the sack leader list obviously you see a good number of successful DEs in the 4-3 who are around the 260 mark.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

maize n blue — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:46:02 GMT

Groves is 260. That's the magic number. He's not "too small" to be an every down DE.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

JagsFanJayS — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:11:00 GMT

Groves does not fit with this team. He is too small to be an every down DE in the NFL. If we do sign him, then that tells me we either have a ic coaching staff or it is a sign we are definitely switching to a 3-4 defense. Groves could be a beast as a 3-4 pass rushing OLB, but he needs that system.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

Su héroe — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:49:38 GMT

[quote][b]Big Cat Country (4/17/2008)[/b][hr]I've just finished another prospect preview at [url=http://www.bigcatcountry.com]Big Cat Country[/url]. This time the subject (by request) is [url=http://www.bigcatcountry.com/story/2008/4/16/173757/799]Auburn Defensive End/Outside Linebacker Quentin Groves[/url].

The interesting part is trying to figure out if he's a reach for the Jaguars at 26 because of his "better fit" in a 3-4 defense. A defensive coordinator that I work with did a little break down of how Grove might fit in the Jaguars defense.

I also did a little research on the "heart surgery" that Groves underwent. He suffered from what's called Wolff-Parkinson-White (WPW) syndrome. What that means is that the electrical system of the heart had an extra electrical pathway. The procedure is to remove a small bundle of nerves around the heart that cause it to develop a rapid or irregular heartbeat. The procedure is 95% successful and patients that have the procedure (called adiofrequency catheter ablation}, are considered cured and without side effects.

While this might cause his "stock to drop", it should have no bearing on his ability to play in the NFL.

Personally, I'm intrigued on what a player like Groves could bring to the team. He's a guided missile aimed at a quarterback every down he's on the field. The question is, can he be on the field for three or four downs? Can he stop the NFL run game?

-Chris[/quote]

Everything I have heard is that he is not a 3-4 OLB. Prisco had a guy on last week that said teams have worked him out at LB and he was horrible. They concluded that he is a stand-up DE only.

The other thing scouts and coaches are looking at is his toughness.He has got the lable of being a little soft. That and the heart surgery has scared teams a bit and dropped him out of the 1st round.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

JT Jag — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:27:42 GMT

[quote][b]Big Cat Country (4/17/2008)[/b][hr]While this might cause his "stock to drop", it should have no bearing on his ability to play in the NFL.

Personally, I'm intrigued on what a player like Groves could bring to the team. He's a guided missile aimed at a quarterback every down he's on the field. The question is, can he be on the field for three or four downs? Can he stop the NFL run game?

-Chris[/quote]It isn't if he can be on the field for 3 downs or four...

It's about whether he can be on the field any more then one down a set--- passing situations only and third down in particularly.

The answer is yes... he'd be an excellent selection.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

meta44what — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:25:20 GMT

Groves is the speed rush off the edge type that can tackle the ball carrier as well. The Jaguars shouldn't pass on the fastest DE in the draft if he's sitting there at 26.

RE: Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

SHART! — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:19:50 GMT

I would avoid SEC defensive ends named Quentin at all costs. That is based on previous NFL success, or lack there of.

Quentin Groves Prospect Preview

Big Cat Country — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:22:27 GMT

I've just finished another prospect preview at [url=http://www.bigcatcountry.com]Big Cat Country[/url]. This time the subject (by request) is [url=http://www.bigcatcountry.com/story/2008/4/16/173757/799]Auburn Defensive End/Outside Linebacker Quentin Groves[/url].

The interesting part is trying to figure out if he's a reach for the Jaguars at 26 because of his "better fit" in a 3-4 defense. A defensive coordinator that I work with did a little break down of how Grove might fit in the Jaguars defense.

I also did a little research on the "heart surgery" that Groves underwent. He suffered from what's called Wolff-Parkinson-White (WPW) syndrome. What that means is that the electrical system of the heart had an extra electrical pathway. The procedure is to remove a small bundle of nerves around the heart that cause it to develop a rapid or irregular heartbeat. The procedure is 95% successful and patients that have the procedure (called adiofrequency catheter ablation}, are considered cured and without side effects.

While this might cause his "stock to drop", it should have no bearing on his ability to play in the NFL.

Personally, I'm intrigued on what a player like Groves could bring to the team. He's a guided missile aimed at a quarterback every down he's on the field. The question is, can he be on the field for three or four downs? Can he stop the NFL run game?

-Chris