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| |  Posted Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:11 PM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 12:34 PM
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| jagibelieve (10/7/2008)
Buddhatut (10/7/2008)
[quote]
From what I know, and I don't claim to be an expert, it's the high corporate taxes that cause outsourcing. You make it too expensive for a corporation to do buisness in the US and they move their buisness overseas. Can we blame them?
That's pretty much the case. It's not only corporate taxes, but taxes/regulations in general that cause businesses to outsource.
I agree with the above but you have to add in what I think is THE major factor corporations outsourcing. Cheap labor. That's right folks cheap labor. The whole reason things like TV and stereos are no longer made in the USA is because China, Korea (and it used to be Japan as well until the population there wanted higher wages) do this stuff much more cheaply than Americans will ever do it.
You go to Wal-Mart looking for the cheapest price and I don't blame you. But to get that cheap price the things you want needs to be made cheaply as well. Hence, cheap labor wins.
On the bright side there is a shift happening in the world. The cheap labor of China and India for instance is getting more expensive as those workers there want a better life and therefore more money, better houses and cars etc. Add to this the rising cost of transporting those goods from across the ocean (fuel cost rising) and the USA workforce begins to look competitive (price-wise) again.
Sure taxes and whatnot have influence but it really does come down to the cost of actually making the widget people want to buy at the best price they can. |
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| | | Posted Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:44 PM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:35 PM
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| Bill4Jags (10/8/2008)
jagibelieve (10/7/2008)
Buddhatut (10/7/2008)
[quote]
From what I know, and I don't claim to be an expert, it's the high corporate taxes that cause outsourcing. You make it too expensive for a corporation to do buisness in the US and they move their buisness overseas. Can we blame them?That's pretty much the case. It's not only corporate taxes, but taxes/regulations in general that cause businesses to outsource. I agree with the above but you have to add in what I think is THE major factor corporations outsourcing. Cheap labor. That's right folks cheap labor. The whole reason things like TV and stereos are no longer made in the USA is because China, Korea (and it used to be Japan as well until the population there wanted higher wages) do this stuff much more cheaply than Americans will ever do it. You go to Wal-Mart looking for the cheapest price and I don't blame you. But to get that cheap price the things you want needs to be made cheaply as well. Hence, cheap labor wins. On the bright side there is a shift happening in the world. The cheap labor of China and India for instance is getting more expensive as those workers there want a better life and therefore more money, better houses and cars etc. Add to this the rising cost of transporting those goods from across the ocean (fuel cost rising) and the USA workforce begins to look competitive (price-wise) again. Sure taxes and whatnot have influence but it really does come down to the cost of actually making the widget people want to buy at the best price they can. I can't think a truer post being made on this board in a long time Bill! |
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| | | Posted Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:59 PM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 2:32 PM
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| Buddhatut (10/7/2008)
the Chiefjag (10/5/2008)
[quote] ThisIsTheYear (10/5/2008)
It is the outsourcing of those manufacturing jobs that allow goods in this country to be as cheep as they are. Why are our auto manufactureres unable to compete with foreign car companeis.....labor cost. Outsourcing is a necessary evil in any global economy. On a side note I found this hilarious spoof of PTI I thought yall would enjoy
http://www.digitalfuntown.com/videos/90[/quote] This is partially true. What will happen eventually in this global economy is the manufacturing jobs will return when the labor market in Asia and S. America begin to demand a higher standard of living as they have in Mexico and Puerto Rico. In the 60's and 70's the U.S. manufacturers were running to Mexico and Puerto Rico for cheaper labor. As time went on the Mexican and Puerto Rican worker started demanding higher wages until their rate of pay was only slightly less than their equivalent U.S. laborer. Now there are no companies going to Mexico and Puerto Rico anymore simply because it's not economically advantageous for them. I buy product from Indonesia and Vietnam because my customers want a dinner for $X amount of money. If I buy U.S. product the price of that dinner would be about 50% higher and the customers would go down the road and dine someplace else. Then I'd be out of business and my employees would be on welfare. What's ironic though is customers will complain about the loss of U.S. jobs but won't pay higher prices for U.S. made products. Sometimes I'll ask them, "do you want to pay $23 for a shrimp dinner or $16?" Regards..............the Chiefjag Maybe we can discuss the economy without it being political. From what I know, and I don't claim to be an expert, it's the high corporate taxes that cause outsourcing. You make it too expensive for a corporation to do buisness in the US and they move their buisness overseas. Can we blame them? I fail to see what is political in this discussion. The discussion is the migration of jobs overseas. There is no mention of a political party in the post. It's not the high corporate taxes that move jobs overseas, it's the cheaper labor. Allow me to explain how big corporations get around paying taxes. They set up a subsidiary in a foreign country which doesn't charge corporate earnings tax, or very little earning tax. Let's call the corporation Multiunit. Multiunit builds a product in Indonesia for $1 per each. They sell the product to the subsidiary Multiunit Annex in Bulgaria (which has no earnings tax) for $1 per each. Multiunit Annex then sells it in the U.S. for $5 generating a $4 profit. But since it's a Bulgarian company they don't pay U.S. earnings tax. These deals can get very complicated and the example is an oversimplification of what actually occurs. However, avoiding U.S. taxes requires a skill set highly paid for in Corporate America. And by the way, I've been there. Regards..............the Chiefjag
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| | | Posted Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:25 PM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 2:32 PM
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| | When I bought my first house in 1981 I could not get a mortgage that established my debt above 37% of my income. This figure was standard back then. In other words, if I made $1000 per month and had a car payment of $125, a student loan payment of $75 and that was all the debt I had my mortgage payment could not exceed $170 ($125 + $75+ $170 = $370 or 37% of $1000). Regards............the Chiefjag
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| | | Posted Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:31 PM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, October 27, 2008 8:34 AM
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| Buddhatut (10/7/2008)
Great idea but it's a society driven on credit. If everyone stopped using credit what would happen to the world economy?
Nothing bad would happen, that's for sure. Living within your means has always been the smart way to live.
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that
something else is more important than fear." |
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| | | Posted Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:46 PM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 2:32 PM
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| Buddy Up To This (10/8/2008)
Buddhatut (10/7/2008)
Great idea but it's a society driven on credit. If everyone stopped using credit what would happen to the world economy?Nothing bad would happen, that's for sure. Living within your means has always been the smart way to live. This is a quality post. You are so right! Regards...............the Chiefjag
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| | | Posted Thursday, October 09, 2008 5:36 AM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 4:31 AM
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| Bill4Jags (10/8/2008)
jagibelieve (10/7/2008)
Buddhatut (10/7/2008)
[quote]
From what I know, and I don't claim to be an expert, it's the high corporate taxes that cause outsourcing. You make it too expensive for a corporation to do buisness in the US and they move their buisness overseas. Can we blame them?
That's pretty much the case. It's not only corporate taxes, but taxes/regulations in general that cause businesses to outsource.
I agree with the above but you have to add in what I think is THE major factor corporations outsourcing. Cheap labor. That's right folks cheap labor. The whole reason things like TV and stereos are no longer made in the USA is because China, Korea (and it used to be Japan as well until the population there wanted higher wages) do this stuff much more cheaply than Americans will ever do it.
You go to Wal-Mart looking for the cheapest price and I don't blame you. But to get that cheap price the things you want needs to be made cheaply as well. Hence, cheap labor wins.
On the bright side there is a shift happening in the world. The cheap labor of China and India for instance is getting more expensive as those workers there want a better life and therefore more money, better houses and cars etc. Add to this the rising cost of transporting those goods from across the ocean (fuel cost rising) and the USA workforce begins to look competitive (price-wise) again.
Sure taxes and whatnot have influence but it really does come down to the cost of actually making the widget people want to buy at the best price they can.
I can agree that cheap labor also factors into a company moving over seas, however, the root cause of labor being more expensive in the U.S. is once again, taxes/regulations.
| "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan. |
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| | | Posted Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:21 AM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:40 AM
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| the Chiefjag (10/8/2008)
Buddhatut (10/7/2008)
the Chiefjag (10/5/2008)
[quote] ThisIsTheYear (10/5/2008)
It is the outsourcing of those manufacturing jobs that allow goods in this country to be as cheep as they are. Why are our auto manufactureres unable to compete with foreign car companeis.....labor cost. Outsourcing is a necessary evil in any global economy. On a side note I found this hilarious spoof of PTI I thought yall would enjoy
http://www.digitalfuntown.com/videos/90[/quote] This is partially true. What will happen eventually in this global economy is the manufacturing jobs will return when the labor market in Asia and S. America begin to demand a higher standard of living as they have in Mexico and Puerto Rico. In the 60's and 70's the U.S. manufacturers were running to Mexico and Puerto Rico for cheaper labor. As time went on the Mexican and Puerto Rican worker started demanding higher wages until their rate of pay was only slightly less than their equivalent U.S. laborer. Now there are no companies going to Mexico and Puerto Rico anymore simply because it's not economically advantageous for them. I buy product from Indonesia and Vietnam because my customers want a dinner for $X amount of money. If I buy U.S. product the price of that dinner would be about 50% higher and the customers would go down the road and dine someplace else. Then I'd be out of business and my employees would be on welfare. What's ironic though is customers will complain about the loss of U.S. jobs but won't pay higher prices for U.S. made products. Sometimes I'll ask them, "do you want to pay $23 for a shrimp dinner or $16?" Regards..............the Chiefjag Maybe we can discuss the economy without it being political. From what I know, and I don't claim to be an expert, it's the high corporate taxes that cause outsourcing. You make it too expensive for a corporation to do buisness in the US and they move their buisness overseas. Can we blame them? I fail to see what is political in this discussion. The discussion is the migration of jobs overseas. There is no mention of a political party in the post. It's not the high corporate taxes that move jobs overseas, it's the cheaper labor. Allow me to explain how big corporations get around paying taxes. They set up a subsidiary in a foreign country which doesn't charge corporate earnings tax, or very little earning tax. Let's call the corporation Multiunit. Multiunit builds a product in Indonesia for $1 per each. They sell the product to the subsidiary Multiunit Annex in Bulgaria (which has no earnings tax) for $1 per each. Multiunit Annex then sells it in the U.S. for $5 generating a $4 profit. But since it's a Bulgarian company they don't pay U.S. earnings tax. These deals can get very complicated and the example is an oversimplification of what actually occurs. However, avoiding U.S. taxes requires a skill set highly paid for in Corporate America. And by the way, I've been there. Regards..............the Chiefjag CJ, it wasn't a political discussion but I was more directing that statement at the mods than anyone else. I've seen many a thread deleted because someone turned it political and I can see an economic discussion becoming political very easily. I digress though, I agree with you, I think cheap labor AND the high taxes charged to corporations are both factors in why companies outsouce. I myself lost a job that I held for over 10 years because it was outsourced to India. All because they pay the worker less in India than they paid me for doing the same work. Lower quality work to be sure but the same work in their eyes.
"Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
"The universe is hostile, so impersonal
Devour to survive... so it is, so it's always been
We all feed on tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I"– Tool, “Vicarious”
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| | | Posted Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:23 AM | |
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:40 AM
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| Buddy Up To This (10/8/2008)
Buddhatut (10/7/2008)
Great idea but it's a society driven on credit. If everyone stopped using credit what would happen to the world economy?Nothing bad would happen, that's for sure. Living within your means has always been the smart way to live. No doubt about that, and I'm one of those people that live on cash, I rarely use credit for anything and if I do I pay it off within six months at most. About the only thing I'll finance long term is a car or house.
"Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
"The universe is hostile, so impersonal
Devour to survive... so it is, so it's always been
We all feed on tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I"– Tool, “Vicarious”
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